BYB offseason book club discussion post
by Baroque on Nov 1, 2011 7:20 PM EDT
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PrintETA: For next Tuesday the 8th, we're reading up to page 164/the end of chapter 21.
Originally I figured a good page count to start would be 60 pages or the first seven chapters. I actually went a bit farther, to the end of chapter nine, but I don't know how far along anyone else is.
So in the first few chapters we have met a few characters;
- Henry Scrimshander, incredible defensive shortstop
- Mike Schwartz, sophomore catcher (and football player) at Westish College
- Henry's parents and sister Sophie
- Owen Dunne, Henry's roommate
- Coach Cox
- Guert Affenlight, president of Westish College
In the story so far, Schwartz has decided that Henry was going to college and he was not going to take no for an answer, even from his father. Henry has become a prospect of some renown after two years in college, and the Harpooners are actually improving and not such a horrible baseball team. We also find out the background of the college president and his frustrations as a young man, and the connection that a small college in the Midwest has to Herman Melville.
So what does everyone think about the book so far? Things you like about the characters, things that remind you of events in your own life, images that really strike a chord with you?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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I'm awful at pacing myself through books
I was up until 6 am one night last week finishing it off. The chapters are so short that it’s much too easy to go for just one twenty more.
If I didn't have homework and crochet class and work to do
I’d probably zip through it, too.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
You're so right
I started Monday as I went to bed and kept telling myself “just one more” chapter for 22 chapters
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
My attention span is to short to read the book, but I love the Cliff Notes.
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Nov 1, 2011 7:31 PM EDT reply actions
Go to the bookstore (or amazon.com's "Look Inside" excerpt) and read the first chapter, at least.
it’s short. And if it doesn’t make you want to read the second one, you probably don’t care for baseball.
Except the book is less and less about baseball
as it goes on. Well, actually its still as much about baseball but then its about so much more, as well …. which is what makes it good
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The characters books . . .
In Chapter 2 Owen Dunne also had a copy of The Art of Fielding.. Guert Affenlight has a copy of Moby Dick. So I started sorting the characters into Fielders and Dicks as I read. (Obnoxious pun intended, but not really relevant.)
I have some theories about how that plays out since I have read the entire book, that I might mention as we get to later chapters.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
I thought about googling it
but figured it didn’t exist so didn’t bother
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish the book had talked more
about his thesis in the Sperm Squeezers. In fact, I wished the book took more time on the backgrounds of a few of characters. I found that Affenlights later wants kinda came out of left field (sorry!) But, perhaps even he was unaware of them. However, if that’s the case then I wish their had been some internal acknowledgment of that in his thoughts. Maybe I haven’t gotten to that yet.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
no, yes you're right
I’m on 23 though
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
I took some time to get into it. I used to be able to get into a reading mindset in no time, but I am so out of practice it is pathetic.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
The bit that I really noticed...
Was after Owen took Henry to the mall, and his mom told him to donate his new clothes to charity, and he realized that his parents could do many things from 500 miles away, but they couldn’t see what he was wearing. Independence is a wonderful thing. :D
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
No need.
Sometimes clueless parents are the best parents. They support you but still allow you to grow up.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I have some comments about his parents for the next round of discussions
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
where did they go?
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Parents always fade away in coming of age stories
Although I don’t know anyone in real life who doesn’t talk to their parents on a regular basis, unless they are dead.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
depends
My brother only calls my parents when my youngest sister prods him to. They aren’t estranged or anything, he just has his own life and doesn’t think to call to say hello. He knows that mom and dad are there when he needs them.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Okay, I stand corrected
I call my parents about once a week, and I live 1500 miles away.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I call pretty frequently
I think it depends a lot on the person.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I talk to my mother almost everyday
but she lives in the same town, but …….. As Henry has soem important decisons going on that you would think might involve them or at least be bounced off them, they are nowhere to be found
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like he's better off, as long as they keep sending their portion of his tuition
"King of Minutiae"
right and exactly because money is an issue
is why I think they should be more present. I didn’t get the idea that Henry resents them and wants to excldue them.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how much he feels they couldn't help him though.
If he doesn’t feel they have advice to offer, he might not want to worry them. I get the feeling he makes the standard “duty calls” – everything is fine, I’m studying hard, baseball is going well.
The “no, I’m not dead, mom” phone calls. :D
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I was actually a little bothered by how out of "pop culture" and fashion
That Henry seems to be. almost cartoonishly exxageratedly so
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
South Dakota is a distant land.
But no, it does seem like Henry is a character displaced from time. Especially with that last name.
So, I had this thought
And I remember being very jarred at the beginning when they mentioned something about the other students texting each other. I was like, “Oh, whoa, this book takes place now.” Up until that point, it felt like it was taking place in a previous era.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
It does feel that way.
It made me think a little bit about when I was in college. We called it “the Alma Bubble,” the idea that what happened on campus was somewhat isolated from the rest of the world.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I went to college in a city
After growing up in a suburb. I had the exact opposite experience… suddenly there was this whole outside world I had been unaware of my entire life.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
college is always such a huge change
Especially if parents didn’t go. I was lucky that both my parents went to college so I knew what to expect. I had some classmates who were the first in their family to go, and it was like their parents were sending them off to a whole other world that they couldn’t enter into.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I was the first one in my family to go out of state
And the first one in my extended family to go out of the upper midwest, so I definitely felt that.
I do remember the time when I realized that my parents no longer needed to know everything I did. If I wanted to stay out until 3 AM, I could and no one would stop me. It was very freeing… much like Henry and the jeans.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Being untethered from what previously kept you grounded, though
that’s hard. Seems to me that Henry is very clearly trading his parents for Schwartz early on.
I think that's true even before he sees Schwartz at school
When he’s constantly “seeing” him in other people. There’s one reason he’s there and without finding Schwartz, he can’t latch onto that reason.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
he does seem to be
I can understand why, to some extent. It takes time to build more of a collection of friends instead of sticking with the one person that is familiar to you.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
right
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
it is
The first time you think about doing something, and wonder what your parents will think, and then realize it doesn’t matter because you don’t NEED to ask permission.
Can be rocky, though. One thing to take the classes you want to and study on your own schedule, another thing to get wasted at the bar and spend evenings throwing up.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
speking of upper midwest,
what do we think the UMSCAC stands for …. Well, just the S really?
strange question?
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Upper Midwest Small College Athletic Conference?
I played hockey for a NESCAC school, so I assume it’s the same.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
cool. thanks.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda like the GLIAC
I love long small college athletic conference acronyms!
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
Hey, we had that same term too
Except it was the “Hillsdale Bubble,” and it was our theory that the Hillsdale conservative powers that be went so far as to intentionally scramble the signal of the Jackson NPR station just so the students could not heat it and thus stay in the bubble. I’m pretty sure this is not true, but you could literally start picking up NPR as soon as you got like two blocks from campus in town….
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
right
and the pointed mention of an iPhone somewhere early. Really locates this book in a particular era.
I like how the iPhone was used
To point out how Henry couldn’t even imagine what the young woman’s life was like.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
YES!!!!
I was taken aback as well. But, I though that maybe I just hadn’t read many books set in the present and wasn’t used to it.
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that's it
I mean, texting and iPhones have only been around for a few years. There just aren’t that many books out there that are that recent and what I consider worth reading.
Come to think of it, I wonder if this is the first piece of fiction I’ve read that mentions an iPhone…
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it is for me
But I wonder if part of that is a deliberate choice to make the baseball seem more timeless as a game.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
It seems like that's part of the reason why the novel is set at Westish
And not at, say, Eastern Wisconsin State University, or whatever. It seems like the small liberal arts school setting in the middle of nowhere is a little easier to make timeless than it would be at a big state university where it would be totally unbelievable for the kids not to go to the mall or have the internet or have iPhones.
I mean, they obviously do have those things at Westish, but they don’t seem to be as important to the characters or the student body. It’s a liberal arts school — I mean, Schartz is a philosophy major who spends all his time writing his thesis in the locker room. That’s totally believable to me, as someone who went to a small college. I knew a bunch of football players and baseball players or volleyball players who were liberal arts majors. I mean, I partied with them and everybody had cell phones but it’s not like at a state school where those kind of academics aren’t as popular — especially among athletes.
By setting the novel at Westish, it’s easier to make baseball can be sort of “in the world and not of the world,” if that makes sense. It’s timeless, yet also not totally distanced from the present day.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
by jhitts08 on Nov 2, 2011 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Also, I guessed
That I related my own experiences playing summer ball in a time long, long, long before texting
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I've also been watching a lot of Wonder Years on Netflix streaming
So I’m pretty sure that’s why I thought it was older. :)
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I've seen that before
Not so often even based on where someone is from, but single-minded focus on one thing to the exclusion of all else. If it doesn’t have to do with baseball it’s as though it doesn’t even exist in his world.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
That part grabbed me too
It reminded me of the first time I realized I could just skip a class with no repercussions sometime during freshman year at MSU. led to a pretty aggressive class skipping binge, as I recall.
by Todd Jones Mustache Ride on Nov 1, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
same with me
Not skipping classes, but being able to stay up late doing homework and sleeping until noon on the weekends. Being able to eat pizza at 4:00 in the morning and cereal for dinner because that’s what I felt like eating.
I think realizing that you need to discipline yourself to accomplish things is an important part of becoming an adult, and seeing Henry work hard to become better at baseball shows that.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Characters
Here are all the characters w/o spoilers: http://baseballandnotbaseball.com/characters-in-the-art-of-fielding/
Most aren’t important and I was actually able to follow w/o my list.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
After the first chapter
I thought I might not like Schwartz, but I actually do like him. He’s a very determined and driven person, and seems to care more about people than he lets on. Smart guy.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
He is a Dick at first. It seems he is on a single minded quest for excellence.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
that he is
Studying for the LSAT way before he needs to take it? He has a solid sense of what he wants and how to go about getting it.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I totally knew a guy in college who could fit the Mike Schwartz character mold.
I can’t be the only person who uses people he knows as proxies for fictional characters in books.
He reminds me of aspects of some people I knew, too.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I actually scribbled on a post-it
during chapter 19: " Is Schwartz a jerk?" so this juror is still out
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He's complicated.
I think if I met him I would think he would be a good friend, but for goodness sake do NOT get on his bad side.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
We'll have to have this discussion again when
everyone gets more pages under their belts. I don’t think he’s evil, by any stretch of the imagination but I do question some of the ways he deals with things and wonder about his intentions and ability to see things from anyone else’s point of view
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't have as much to say off the top of my head about these early chapters as I do the later ones
I read way ahead and am on chapter 30-something. so I’ll see if I have any comments on other people’s comments!
I read 8 chapters.
I was into it right away. Love that Henry called his glove “zero”. Slowed a bit for me when the story drifted into the life of Guert Affenlight. I was curious about what kind of scholarship Henry was given, and that was cleared up after the phone call home, where he agreed not to accept clothing from Owen.
"King of Minutiae"
Affenlight's background is important, though.
I wonder how many men who succeed in academia wanted so badly to write a Brilliant Novel when they were young, and it just didn’t happen.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Naming your glove "Zero" in a novel is about as subtle as naming it "Foreshadowing."
it’s like the gun introducted in the first act.
haha
And while they were talking about his errorless streak, all I could think was “DAMMIT YOU ARE GOING TO JINX HENRY! IT’S JUST LIKE MENTIONING A NO-HITTER!”
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I think the jacket cover or other description mentions an errant throw.
So it wasn’t exactly a secret. ;)
"Old English D":http://old-english-d.blogspot.com
right
i don’t think that’s supposed to be a secret. I just assumed …
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Was anything one else bothered by the
relatively quick passage of time in the chapters after the first few? I guess the books already long enough, but I felt a bit rushed.
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a chain started by HighOPS about this somewhere in the thread.
I definitely noticed it when it was happening, and felt like I should be bothered by it, but couldn’t identify any particular reason why. Then I decided I liked it.
Well, there's obviously so much more to come
so he couldn’t really spend too much time
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by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I felt a little bit rushed...
But I am thinking that in my case (because I’ve read books before that whipped through years quickly without feeling that jarring feeling) that it’s because I am REALLY out of practice at reading fiction.
I think before I go any further I am going to reread the first few chapters to get a better feel for the language and then go on from there.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Yeah, I sort of thought this
Once I got further along, I decided that the book wasn’t really about what I thought it was about. Still very good, but not actually about Henry’s struggles to fit in.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it caught me off guard
The first few chapters I had settled into thinking that the entire book would probably take place over the course of freshman (sorry, fresh person) year
by Todd Jones Mustache Ride on Nov 1, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh my God
Did the use of “fresh person” annoy anyone else? Does any college actually say that? They kept using it over and over without even mentioning “At Westish, freshperson is their name for freshman!” It annoyed me a bit.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
It's an Owenism
that the rest of team uses out of respect for him
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 2, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was something the whole school used
Like in an official capacity. But I might be wrong, I need to go back and re-read.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
in short: "YES!"
It’s the one piece of the book that I have a hard time seeing as real to life (but it’s been a few years since I was in college and it may be common now).
anyone closer to that age than can give some insight?
Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
I admit to wondering what was happening...
…when they raced through two years in 5 chapters. I wondered if the College wasn’t going to be the setting after all.
Then they had the first Affenlight chapter.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
I understand why they did, though.
Had to get to a point where it was clear that Henry was comfortable in the college setting and with his friends and teammates, and couldn’t just start right there without some development.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I agree
I imagine it as a training montage in the movie version.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
exactly
“Here is where the character was, here is how he got to where he is right now… and now for the plotlines to develop.”
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
And once we were established, it was pretty clear that nothing important happens, storywise, in those two years.
We’re given a trajectory and allowed to extrapolate from it to the point where the story needs to begin. Better than wasting time with filler.
Just Henry getting less spindly and becoming more of a baseball player.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Speaking of the movie version
Was your Mike Shwartz white or black? I guess it doesn’t really matter for the story, but I’m always interested in how other people “cast” their books. I definitely pictured him as a white kid, but there’s nothing (at least in these first 7 chapters) that definitely points it out.
by Todd Jones Mustache Ride on Nov 1, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Never really crossed my mind.
What with the Jewish last name and his personality resemblance to people I know, I always pictured him white.
I had the same thought
There are major characters that aren’t even introduced yet in the first 60 pages!
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
oh ok.
i asked that above , me too
I’m a little behind on the comments, trying to do this at work.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Owen's sense of humour.
My favorite roommates were the funny ones.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
If we were lucky.
When he finished off the run last, and then said “I bet I can beat him now. He looks tired.” I SWEAR one of my friends in college said something almost word for word like that after the first run with an intramural team.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I was a little worried about stopping after seven chapters
Moving from one established narrative over the first 5 chapters to the next few about Affenlight. It’s always a bit of a leap of faith to go jump from an established narrative to some new thread.
I'd rather a book do that, though
Instead of trying to introduce ALL the characters at once and then take the story from there. I find that more confusing.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I can go either way.
I wonder, though, if your interest in this book is primarily as a baseball fan, if the switch to Guert’s POV isn’t a bit of a letdown.
I think that's very much an individual thing
Most characters have at least some kind of trait or interest that lets us relate to them, even if they’re an antagonist.
I can relate to Henry in a bazillion ways.
"King of Minutiae"
I like that they keep the main characters down relatively few
I don’t want to take a week off, then be reading and try to remember who someone was when they’re mentioned. I’m totally capable of spacing on a character, or a real person.
"King of Minutiae"
same here
I prefer a book to focus on a few main characters so I can understand them, instead of overwhelming with a cast of thousands. Also, in that case some of them are guaranteed to be poorly-developed cartoons.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I worry that some of the main characters in this book at times
seem a little cartoonish and one-dimensional. Maybe this will be answered later by continued reading, but at this point I keep wondering if Owen necessarily had to be gay. There’s really only one scene in the first 160 pages where its really significant and it’s not that he gives Henry fashion advice.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
perhaps that is the point
That it really doesn’t matter much if he is or isn’t. I thought it was funny when he introduced himself “hi, I’m your gay mulatto roommate!” Like there were other different roommates hiding somewhere.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
It's necessary later
But it also sets up early that he’s this guy who likes to do things his own way, different from the crowd. I mean, he had the special scholarship that was supposed to give him his own room. The rules for others don’t apply to him.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably not fair to comment, since I've finished the book.
I do think that Owen is a bit of what used to be called the “magical Negro”, where some character outside of the established norm is depicted too perfectly and serves only to affect other characters. More on this later.
FOIL (english teacher alert!)
In a long distance relationship with the Tigers--and, yes, we're doing fine.
first, outside, inside, last.
(english/math crossover referenc’d)
by lesmanalim on Nov 1, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The book jacket mentions the lives of 5 people being affected
so I spent a good deal of time in the first 15 chapters deciding who those five would be. That was intirguing, but by chapter 20 it’s pretty clear who they are. But I do wonder why some of the others kinda just came and went.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks to Baroque for taking the reins on all this!
Looks like it’s a smashing success so far. ;)
"Old English D":http://old-english-d.blogspot.com
by VivaTigres on Nov 1, 2011 8:01 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
my first rec'd of the off-season!
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
:D
No problem, it forces me to read something just for fun.
I figured it might work since when this group veers off topic someone almost inevitably mentions books.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I can't decide what I think about Schwartz.
He pushes so hard to make this no name kid into somebody, which is admirable…
but he’s totally undermining the older player (It has been a couple of weeks since I read; forgive my forgetfulness).
I can see working to get the best team possible on the field, but the way he’s doing it (starting fights) is horrible! It says a lot about our culture—winning is more important than loyalty. I can’t help but think of Brandon Inge reading this book.
In a long distance relationship with the Tigers--and, yes, we're doing fine.
I do, too
At least so far, he’s making Henry Scrimshander what he is. Helping the kid to live out his dream, and beyond anything he ever dreamt. So he manipulates, but he also busts his ass for himself, the team, and Henry.
"King of Minutiae"
and the comments about how he loves the college
And both loves and hates where he is from in Chicago, so tries to help out kids from his old neighborhood. It’s a very generous thing to do.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Yeah, but why?
Is anyone truly and purely generous of spirit without seeking self reward?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Many folk live vicariously through their children
Why not through your proteges?
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
altruism
There is actually a lot of debate in biology about what is true altruism in nature and what is just enlightened self-interest. Do people do good just because they want to do good, or do they do it for the reward? And if someone does it for the endorphin rush at seeing someone else succeed, does the person who was helped really care?
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
it did make me wonder a lot at first
if he’s doing that to overcompensate for some shortcomings he feels he has, though
He's very driven, and at this point, I'm wondering what drives him.
Figuring we’ll find that out later. Maybe you already know.
"King of Minutiae"
End of the first chapter
it says that all his life he wanted to possess some transcendent talent. He believes Henry has one and he doesn’t.
ahh, I recall that. But I still get the sense that there is more.
He’s a pretty main character- second only to Henry (and Zero)
"King of Minutiae"
He's very single-minded.
At one point Henry told Schwartz he could wait to start at shortstop, and maybe Tennant would play better if he got some encouragement. and Schwartz said no, he was bad last year too, and you are going to play at shortstop because I am tired of losing and you are better than he is.
It’s a pretty cold way of looking at it, but I can understand why he sees it that way. He won’t be at college forever and probably doesn’t want to feel he’s wasted his college career on a losing team.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I agree
but I’ve read more so i additional reasons for wondering what I think of him.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
So how much farther along is everyone?
I’m just to the start of chapter 10, so I think I am the farthest behind. I just want to see how much farther ahead everyone is. :)
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
i forced myself to stop after 7
now i understand that i can zoom ahead of the ‘pace’ :)
In a long distance relationship with the Tigers--and, yes, we're doing fine.
I did the same
So much to do that I forced myself to stop after just a couple more chapters because I didn’t want to get too far ahead. Also I had to study for an exam.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I only read Ch 8 because it was just a few pages, and something made me curious about that chapter
I think I also hadn’t read enough to fully take my mind off this bullshit case that I’m working on.
"King of Minutiae"
Me too
Although cant wait to get back to it and see what happened to Owen!
by Todd Jones Mustache Ride on Nov 1, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I stopped after 7, too!
I’ll probably keep reading along at the “club pace” to kind of see how the discussion evolves, but I will also be annoyed by spoilery chat, so who knows if I actually stick to it!
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
I finished it, but then went back to figure out what had happened at 60 pages
Not that much, it turns out!
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Chapter 22
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I finished it
I bought it the week it came out and couldn’t put it down for three days.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
I think if anyone was inclined not to like it
They probably didn’t even decide to start reading it.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I don't know
I sometimes start books and give up on them.
Ironically, I have never made it very far in Moby Dick.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
Ha
I also failed to read Moby Dick in college.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
me four
I’ve made a couple of attempts, all failures.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I read Billy Budd
I figure I’m covered
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
well, yes, I've done the same
Too many good books to waste time on ones that I don’t really like out of a sense of duty.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I remember Bartleby, the Scrivener very well.
that’ll be worth a talking point or two in a few more weeks.
You guys just KNOW that there are going to be references from this book
popping up in game threads all next season, don’t you?
"King of Minutiae"
Did anyone else think all the extras had funny names?
At first I tried to look for inside jokes. Then I gave up and realized if someone had a funny name it just meant you didn’t have to worry much about them.
I’m looking at you Sal Phlox.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
Well, even Skrimshander is kind of a funny name...
I read a review somewhere that suggested that originally the book was more of a slapstick comedy and the names are a relic of that.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You never know when there will be a Sarah X. Pessel reference
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
by HighOPS on Nov 1, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and affenlight
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
affen is ape in German- not sure it's relevant, but I worry about names since the author can pick whatever he wants
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
my dad went to college with a guy
Who went by “Brookie” because his last name was Brooks.
His initials were P. M. For Precious Memory. That poor child.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
My initials are E.R.R.
My dad thinks he’s so clever…
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Guert Affenlight
Girded up ape light according to google with automatic language detect
Lightly girded ape?
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
maybe a little too English major-y
Affenlight reminded me of the very deliberate character naming with Nathaniel Hawthorne – Scarlet Letter, particularly. Dimmesdale, Chillingworth, these are beat-you-over-the-head-with-meaning kind of names.
The author did that on purpose.
They’re sly references to names used in classic works of literature.
meta Book Club thread question
What do you all think about the pacing of the agreed sections? What should we read to for next week?
I was just going to ask that
Everyone seems to be zipping through, so maybe see if there is a convenient break that some of those who have read farther along can point out?
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
How about maybe 10 chapters per week?
I dunno. I’ll keep up and limit myself to whatever.
"King of Minutiae"
Do I hear 20?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd suggest going through Chapter 19, at least
not sure how many pages that is. I read it on an iPod.
more, much more
I won’t be able to slow down now …. but whatever everyone else is comfortable with, as well
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm actually finished with it...
… but I can pace to everyone else.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I see a problem though.
If we all finish this book by Thanksgiving, there is still a long time until spring training.
Either we will have to find another distraction, or choose another book to read. :D
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
haha
Doesn’t seem like anyone is a really slow reader in this bunch.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
agreed
anyone have any interest in reading my high school classmate Doug Glanville’s book, ’The Game From Where I stand" ??
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Since I already own that book but haven't read it yet,
works for me.
In a long distance relationship with the Tigers--and, yes, we're doing fine.
The Brothers K, by David James Duncan!
My favorite book of all time.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It's similar in that it winds up being a lot less about baseball
But baseball is still central to everything. Although so is religion, which might be an iffy topic.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 1, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Plenty of books out there after we finish this one
I would suggest “Shoeless Joe”, “The Final Season,” “Crazy ’08,” or “The First Fall Classic.”
by Todd Jones Mustache Ride on Nov 1, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I could be down for Moneyball
I mean, Bonderman’s in that book! But hasn’t everyone already read it? I think we could all get behind “The Last Season”. It’s about a guy that goes to every home game at Tiger Stadium in ‘99. Last time checked though, it wasn’t available on Kindle. So that’s a bummer. Also, not sure if it’s any good. Has anyone read it?
by Todd Jones Mustache Ride on Nov 1, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I have moneyball, but haven't read it
I’ve picked it up and read parts of it, but never had a full go at it.
"King of Minutiae"
I've never read moneyball
and I see the movie first, I won’t want to read the book.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 2, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I need to work on a stupid lab report for tomorrow.
So how about shoot for page 164, the start of chapter 22 for next week?
We can adjust based on how far along people are.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I know it is
But it seems like everyone is moving at a good pace, so I think most of us will be there or close to it.
If not, we can scale back to where people have gotten to.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
that's exactly where I am now
but, I can go with the flow and I have stuff I want to mention about chapters 8-21 anyway
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
To the start of Chapter 22 for next week?
And start thinking about ideas for the next book. If we can get it down to a handful of ideas, I can make a poll if people want.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Maybe the English teacher can prepare some discussion question for next time
; )
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I've taught elementary school language arts
not sure that counts
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
guess i need to work on my reading skills
I read your subject line as “do we have one?” haha
In a long distance relationship with the Tigers--and, yes, we're doing fine.
haha
If anyone wants to offer some points for discussion, please do so.
Just don’t talk so much about symbolism and allegories that I start crying from “Lord of the Flies” flashbacks. :D
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
oh, that's kinda what I was hoping for
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Crying and flashbacks?!?
THAT IS SO MEAN! :)
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
hahahaha
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
chemistry homework time
But I know what I’ll be reading in the evenings now. I’ll toss up another post next Tuesday, then? About the same time?
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
You might be able to get an editor to schedule a post
That way you don’t have to be present to start one at the appointed time.
I will if I'm not around.
But if I am around, may as well toss it up in person.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
sounds good.
I do want to advocate for sticking to a public start time, though, so people can plan to be around to participate live if they want. Like NCDee, who dropped in fashionably late only 19 minutes after 9 PM, but we’d been going for an hour and a half already and had pretty much talked ourselves out by 9.
Agreed on the start time
Also, if an editor schedules a post, would that make it show up on the SB Nation app? Tonight’s convo didn’t.
Big thanks, Baroque!
by Todd Jones Mustache Ride on Nov 1, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This was fun.
Dare say, I liked this way better than book club discussions IRL. Hate waiting for others to finish talking. :)
I’ll keep checking in. No reason this has to be a live thread only.
that was my hope
I know some people aren’t able to be present at this time, and a post with comments is more stable than a twitter discussion so people can keep adding along if they have other thoughts.
The first few chapters definitely make me want to read more, though. Always a good sign for a book.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Baroque I'm really glad you put this together!
I’m catching up with the rest of you (pg 136 now) because I bought it late, but this has been one of the more enjoyable books I’ve picked up in a long time and I would have never looked twice at it in the bookstore.
Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
yeah, I hope people will add as the week goes on
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Nov 1, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh hell I had a phone call and now I'm late to the party.
But that’s probably good because I just had to finish the book and I’m afraid I would give away stuff. So I’ll stick with style — I love this writing. I loved how he referred to the cloud shadows moving “rodentially” across the field. Just perfect.
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
i actually have yet to start reading cause im dumb and thought we were beginning the book today
by ivantopumpyouup on Nov 1, 2011 9:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
no worries!
the first 7 chapters did go pretty quickly, even though I spaced them out over a week.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
I'm late to the party...
…way late. I had to cover a HS volleyball game. I hope maybe we can keep the discussions going longer than just Tuesday, if anyone gets into long, impassioned discussions.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
I read this on my own
and finished it last night. It was a worthwhile read, and I’m amazed that this is the author’s first novel.
One of the books mentioned in a blurb on the back cover, The Brothers K by David James Duncan, is the finest baseball novel I’ve ever read.
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