Raise your hand if you don't want Grady Sizemore
//momotigers raises hand...looks around room for others...finds nobody...sulks
There's a ton of clamoring lately to SIGN GRADY SIZEMORE. Sizemore's seemingly endless fanclub boasts that "He's a great player" and "He'll be less than 9M because that's what the Indians decided not to pay him" and "He's certainly worth a chance."
I disagree with at least two of these statements, if not all three.
Grady Sizemore was an exceptional athlete in high school. He was a standout in the "big 3" sports and signed a letter of intent to actually play college football at University of Washington. When you see players like this, they often get the label "5-tooled players". If a baseball scout backs up that notion, even better.
The mythical 5-tooled player is like the marshmallows in the box of Lucky Charms - they're the best part, but there ain't too many of them. Fans and executives start having visions of Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, and Wilkin Ramirez. Grady was your classic 5-tool player. It's important to understand what those five tools are:
- Ability to hit for average
- Ability to hit for power
- Fielding ability
- Throwing ability
- Baserunning speed and ability
Unlike Wilkin Ramirez, Sizemore lived up to his potential. His breakout year in 2005 showcased all five. He hit .289 and slugged .484. He was on highlight reels everywhere as a CF with the legs to track it, the hands to catch it, and the arm to throw it. He swiped 22 bases to complete the package.
He got even better in 2006 as he raised his average slightly to .290, boosted his slugging to .533, played solid defense, and kept his SB at 22 while getting thrown out a little less.
In 2007 and 2008, he again posted great numbers, but his SLG fell to about .500 or below for both years. His average started trending downward while he increased his SB rate. He was still a great player - the dropping average was offset in terms of OBP by an increased BB%. The defense was still great. His 2008 season of .268 avg. / .502 SLG / 8.9 UZR / and 38/43 SB showcased a great four-tooled player that was missing only the average component.
2009 marked his first season plagued by injury. He had surgery on both a hernia and his elbow (his throwing elbow).
In 2010, he played in 33 games before he had microfracture surgery on his left knee.
In 2011, his recovery from the microfracture surgery was slow, but he eventually returned. However, his season was cut short by a contusion to the right knee, continued discomfort in the right knee and another hernia problem (more surgery).
Sizemore has never hit at .300 or higher. Granted, not many do and I'm perfectly happy saying that a .290 hitter is one that hits for average. The problem with Sizemore is that he's much more likely these days to hit .260 than .290. He's not one that's going to contribute significantly in this area.
Another of his "5 Tools" has been robbed by the elbow surgery of 2009. I'm sure the Sizemore's arm was once pretty good, although he wasn't the QB on his football team. However, after major surgery on his throwing elbow, I'd be very hesitant to call his throwing ability a plus tool any longer. In my book, he's down to three tools.
Finally, you have to consider the knees. The microfracture surgery is undoubtedly a major one. True; it's healed and re-habbed. He's clear to play on it, but you still have to question it's durability and whether it's as good as new. To me, the right knee is just as troubling. That's the one that gave him so much trouble after coming back last year. It was diagnosed with a contusion and then kept acting up. It's balky and the doctors don't know why or aren't saying why. Heck, the doctors and team that knows him best, Cleveland, declined the 9M option. If Sizemore was going to be even close to the player he was in 2005-2008, he's a steal at 9M. My guess is that the knees just aren't the same. Take away a man's knees, and I'm going to take away two more tools: Great CF defense and the ability to steal 20+ bags. I bet he defense will still be steady and he'll still be able to take a few bases, but they're just not plus tools any longer.
The only true plus tool this guy has left is power. I'll give Sizemore 20 dingers next season. Heck, he might get 30 in the right setting. What people need to realize is that they're bidding for a one tool player.
The persistent knee and groin problems do not bode well for Sizemore. In my mind, it's unlikely that he plays an entire season. I'd make my first bet that he only logs about 300 AB's. If I get that one wrong, I'll offer my guess on his stat line for the season, being a one-tooled player: .250 Avg, 29HR, .477 SLG, 10SB. Actually, those are roughly Josh Willingham's 2011 numbers with a few extra SB's. With Willingham, however, he'll cost less and be a pretty safe bet to give you those numbers. I'm guessing Sizemore will cost more and carries a heavy risk of giving you 300 AB's or less.
There will be lots of teams bidding for Sizemore's services. MLB Trade Rumors reports that The Cubs, Rangers, Giants and Yankees are potential suitors for Sizemore, along with the Phillies, Rockies, Red Sox and Indians. There's some deep pockets on that list. I don't believe he'll sign below 7M unless it's incentive laden or for several years. The big boys should all be kicking the tires, so he'll have his offers. The memories of the 5 tooled player will be strong and GM's will be able to bump that offer a bit for what was once that rare marshmallow. Unfortunately, he's just like the rest of the cereal these days.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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raises hand
BACK SPASMS…i know someone around here has the image.
we finally don’t have to wonder about Carlos and injuries this year. I’d rather not have to do that with Sizemore as well. Plus with enough teams interested his price might go up a bit… I’ll pass.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
raises hand
FREE JOSH WILLINGHAM.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Nov 15, 2011 4:35 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Now you're talkin.
A legit power hitter that hits righties and lefties, and doesn’t kill you in left field. Only problem is he wants three years and would be blocking the path of….. ummmmm…. errrrr…. uhhhhh…… well, there’s uhhhh…. Avisail Garcia?
"King of Minutiae"
NOT AVISAIL GARCIA
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Nov 15, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Raises hand
I’d be more than willing to bet that his right knee problems are due to him compensating for his left knee after the microfracture surgery, which isn’t exactly the most proven option when it comes to joint rehabilitation. The multiple hernias are an issue as well. When there are younger players that can offer similar production for less money (why, hello there Josh Willingham), there’s no reason to go after Sizemore.
Yup
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Nov 16, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Guesstimates
Grady gets a one year deal for $ 5 mil plus plenty of incentives. The ultimate incentive would be a $ 9 million vesting option for a second season based upon plate appearances.
Willingham gets a two or three year deal in the range of about 7.5 million per year. He benefits from being one of the best free agent outfielders among a thin crop this year. Beltran, Cuddyer, Willingham, DeJesus, Grady, Ibanez. Not a lot there.
"King of Minutiae"
Grady will get more money and years than that
His list of suitors is too long for a deal like that to happen.
# of teams interested
doesn’t necessarily mean he is going to get a huge contract. There is huge interest in Clint Barmes this year, but I don’t think anyone sees him signing a huge contract. Sizemore is injured star, a lot of teams are going to kick the Tires to seee what hs has left. Even more teams are going to be linked to Sizemore because his name recognition attracts eyeballs.
Sounding like
you Nailed the contract TDog
at at 1 year and 3-4-5 mil guaranteed Sizemore is a pretty good risk
We aren't the Yankees
While our payroll isn’t in San Diego territory, we simply don’t have the margin for as many “oopsies” as the Yankees or Red Sox can. If we sign a guy to be a starter, he has to start and play reasonable well.
Grady can’t be that guy. He might be great, or he might be Carlos 2.0. I’d rather find out on Sportscenter which of those statements is true.
So...
Don’t sign him to a long-term deal. Give him an incentive-laden one-year and let him walk if someone offers him more.
If signed, Grady Sizemore is either the best or the worst outfielder on our team. I’m willing to take that gamble, especially if we bait him with a carrot on a stick contract.
by metatron5369 on Nov 16, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
so apparently there are 6 of us
no need to sulk momo!
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Sweet...the support is nice!
Now, all of you “Sign Grady Sizemore” people need to chime in. I need to be convinced.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Cleveland letting Grady walk doesn't surprise me
They let the face of franchise, Jim Thome, walk away twice. They let Manny Ramirez walk away. They traded Cliff Lee for prospects when was due to make $9 Million. They traded CC Sabathia for prospects when he was making $11 Million. They traded Victor Martinez for prospects when he was making $5.9 Million and due to get $7.7 the next season. There is a clear pattern here. Either trading or letting Grady Sizemore walk when he was due to make $9 Million wasn’t really a question.
They would obviously rather spend that $9+ million to shore up other needs, like their rotation. It already helped them get Derek Lowe for $5 Million and pick up Carmona’s $7 million option for 2012.
As for Grady Sizemore’s 5 tools-
Speed – Check. He’s still running at a plus level. He’s just not blazing fast anymore. Even with the knee problems this year, he was still faster than 90% of the competition.
Fielding- Check . He’s still able to cover plus ground in CF. If moved to a corner spot, he’d be plus plus.
Power – Check. His power is plus more than fine.
Arm – Check. The MRI, showed that there was no structural damage to his elbow. The arthroscopic elbow surgery he had was nothing major. It was just a simple cleaning procedure of the elbow. This was over 2 years ago. If it was plus before, then it’s still plus today.
Batting – This is the only question mark. The question is can he bounce back to the .280 AVG, .370 OBP, and .500 SLG. player that he once was?
A) Yes, if he can bounce back. Then he’s easily worth $15 Million a year again. He’d be the biggest steal of the free agent market.
B) No, he doesn’t bounce back fully. He’s only worth $6 – $8 Million, about what Josh Willingham will get. These days nobody wants to overpay for a player, especially small market teams like Cleveland.
C) No, he just doesn’t stay healthy. He’s worth nothing.
Nobody is denying that Sizemore is a risky acquisition. For the right price, for the right team, that risk is probably worth taking. The Tigers could always fall back on Ryan Raburn if Sizemore doesn’t pan out. A one year contract to Sizemore isn’t going to break us no matter what, but it could turn us into one of the all-time greatest Detroit teams if Sizemore does bounce back.
We should offer Sizemore the same money that we were going to give to Delmon Young
So essentially, it’s Grady Sizemore vs Delmon Young.
1 year deal for about $6.5 million.
and trade Delmon for Prado! :-)
BTW- I think the Tribe will be in the mix to bring Grady back. He’s likely to sign a one year, incentive laden deal. That’s better for him and better for a club that signs him.
"King of Minutiae"
Speed?
Stolen bases throughout Sizemore’s career
2005: 22
2006: 22
2007: 33
2008: 38
2009: 13
2010: 4
2011: 0
I know that stolen bases aren’t the only way to measure a player’s speed, but damn. That’s more than frightening.
These numbers are a little tricky
His AB’s were down in 2009, way down in 2010, and pretty low in 2011. However, lets look at SB per AB.
2005: 22/640 = 3.44%
2006: 22/655 = 3.36%
2007: 33/628 = 5.25%
2008: 38/634 = 5.99%
2009: 13/436 = 2.98%
2010: 4/128 = 3.13%
2011: 0/268 = 0%
Rob…your numbers make it look like there has been a steady decline since 2008. That’s not really the case.
In looking at the percents above, it looks like he used to be good for about 3% per year with 2007 and 2008 being his prime SB years at 5-6%. As recently as 2010, he was stealing about as many bases, percent-wise, as he was early in his career. Without his knee injuries, I would speculate the 3-4% is where he would have stayed in Cleveland.
The knee problems began AFTER those 4 SB in 2010. Since the knee problems, he has zero steals in 268 ABs. The optimists might say that the knees will heal as he gets further from the surgeries. As a dude getting close to 40, I know that the knees don’t magically get better with age. They may heal from the major injury, but they won’t be new again…ever.
The end result is the same either way…he’s not a base stealing threat any longer.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I would be more concerned about his bat speed
ability to get on base, make contact, and his defense.
"King of Minutiae"
I remember people writing off Jim Edmonds the same way
because of the surgeries on both his knees and shoulder.
St. Louis took a chance on him and he proved a ton of people wrong. He had some of his best seasons while he was in his 30’s. Despite his reckless style of play and injuries that came with it, he was still was the best defensive outfielders in the game.
I’m guilty of writing players off too. This year, I wrote off Adrian Gonzalez, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Jose Reyes thinking that injuries would plague them again. My biggest mistake ever was thinking that Cliff Lee’s career was done in 2008, but his career somehow took a giant leap forward. You just never know how guys will bounce back. Sometimes when they get healthy again, they’ll exceed all expectations. Career years are sometimes ahead of those injury plagued players.
The difference is in the types of injuries these guys had
Sizemore had microfracture knee surgery, which some people still don’t even believe is effective. The research on it is mixed as to whether it’s actually effective or not. Add in the fact that he’s having problems with his other knee now, presumably because he’s compensating for his surgically repaired knee, and there are a lot of things that point toward him not being the same player he once was.
He played great in April though
I think he could heal well this off-season and be 100% come Spring Training.
But whatever. If you guys made up your minds already, then there is probably nothing that can change it until proven wrong. I understand, I feel the same way about Joel Zumaya.
He is not the same player he use to be.
I live close to Cleveland and have watch him play for the Tribe since he was a rookie.He dosen’t even look like the same guy.I would stay away from Grady let someone else over pay him.



























