BYB Book club POST THE LAST (for now at least)
by Baroque on Nov 22, 2011 7:53 PM EST
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Hello, everyone!
Have you finished the book? What do you think of it?
But first... Here is an interview (part one) with the author of The Art of Fielding, which after having read the book might help answer some questions or add some further insight to your thoughts about the book. Thanks to Kurt for making sure I didn't miss the link to it so I could share with everyone.
I anticipate everyone will be really busy for the next few weeks with Thanksgiving, Christmas coming up, other winter holidays, shopping, and any year-end tasks at work and/or final exams at school, so this would be after the new year starts... But does anyone want to read another book after the holidays? January to mid-February or so would take us up until when pitchers and catchers report and the Tigers play their first spring training game in 100 days (give or take), so there is time for one more if anyone cares to. Otherwise we can hang onto interesting titles until next fall when we need something to take the edge off of a time empty of baseball.
Food for thought after the turkey is devoured, anyway.
So, "The Art of Fielding" by Chad Harbach... final thoughts? And thank you all in advance of comments for participating. It was a lot of fun to see so many jump in and comment on the novel, and it really helped to pass the time and was a fun community activity to do together with friends. :)
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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Sure I'm up for another book
Wow. My PC hard drive died and it was old enough that I bought a new PC. Wow. It is amazing how well a PC works when it has a decent amount of memory and before it is all clogged up with spyware!
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
haha, yes
Functioning PCs are a plus.
If there is any interest, I’ve heard a few titles mentioned so I’ll put up a poll after Thanksgiving is over and the turkey coma has passed.
But first, what did you think of this book?
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
The very end was a little strange
The author didn’t take the easiest way out and have Henry get a hit. Still, using Henry to pinch hit after he quit and the extent of the plot devices needed to put him in that situation…
It was almost like a sit-com: Get hit in the head (or have someone get hit in the head) get amnesia. Get hit again (or get yourself hit) and maybe get your memory (ability) back.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
I thnk it was necessary to get Henry into the action somehow in order to create a climax
and the reasons for Owen being unavailable had been set up for most of the book. It didn’t feel like a deus ex machina moment.
The interesting part of that ending to me was that Henry’s moment comes not in the field, but at the plate. I really thought the entire chapter was superb.
Why do you think Henry isn't allowed to have a memory of winning?
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
I prefer the juxtaposition of hearing about winning from Henry's hospital bed
It makes the championship win seem less like a cheap thrill and sets a more conflicted emotional tone.
Plus, it’s really hard to beat the way the in-game chapter ended.
I'm open to suggestions
I’ve got a few titles already that I have heard mentioned in various places.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I screwed up and didn't do my homework
I thought that since I had the day off, I’d be able to catch up, but I wound up babysitting the CBA most of the day.
I’ll just say again that I love this book and look forward to finishing it, and I like the book club here too. Wish I didn’t screw up.
"King of Minutiae"
that's okay
I didn’t finish yet either. Chemistry got in the way – I’ll have it done after the holiday break. Stuff happens.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
it's alright
I should have been doing other things instead of finishing the book, so good for you that you got other stuff done first, haha
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
Did David do anything wrong?
I’ve been trying to figure out a way to say yes, because I despise him and I think we’re totally supposed to. But outside of allowing himself to be seduced by a teen and ultimately marrying Pella, I can’t think of something he could have done to make things right.
I couldn't think of anything specific.
He seems like maybe a little bit of a control freak and possibly superficial, as when it talked about David being content when Pella was depending on him, but he isn’t unusual in that. Many people are happier when they have some measure of control over others.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
yes
He just seems… hateable, through no particular actions of his own, but he just IS.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
My mental picture of David is Tobias Funke from Arrested Development.
Played, coincidentally, by David Cross.
I didn't like him
but I think he’s just messed up like the rest of him. Pella was with him because she wanted that controlling father figure that she lacked, so how can we blame David for being that way? Especially when he didn’t know she was unhappy.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
There's some indication that he preferred her unhappy
because it kept her dependent on him. I think that comes from Pella’s POV, though, so she may just be angry.
exactly
Did he really prefer her happy and dependent, or did she just think he did because he seemed happier to her that way?
Although if he did prefer her dependent, he wouldn’t be the first man to do so. Sometimes they are emotionally manipulative and see that a wife or girlfriend cuts herself off from her own friends and relies on him for interactions.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Key behavior for an abuser, really
but again, we’re only seeing one side of the story. It would be easy to hate David if he hit Pella or something, but he didn’t. And she was messed up too.
(I hate that I might almost kinda sorta be defending an abusive husband.)
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
it's complicated though
They were both broken and the relationship between them could hardly be expected to be healthy given their starting conditions.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
right
And it isn’t as though he fooled her about what he was like. He never hid his personality, she just found it appealing in some ways.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
He tried to be cooler than he was.
“Shall we?” holding up two airline tickets in sweaty hands? That’s playing to a fantasy.
who doesn't do that, though?
we all aspire to be a better version of ourselves, suave or not
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
What you're saying is true in the general sense
but David had just slept with a teenage girl and then tried to retreat further into the fantasy of that doomed relationship. That’s hardly the path to self-improvement.
couldn't we say the same about Guert and the house?
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
perhaps.
That seems much more nuanced to me, though. Guert is kind of pushed into the decision at first, but really seemed pretty genuinely excited about moving for a while there.
I liked that the dog came with the house
It was a little too perfect in terms of what Affenlight needed, but I saw a lot of parallels between the dog and Guert. Two old souls trying to fit in where they’ve always been even as the world and the people change around them.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Guert does seem like he's from another time.
Fitting that he would find his way to academia.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I'm sure David and Pella were excited about their life at first too
We can’t really say if Owen would have run away in five years because he felt smothered by the house and the dog and the solar panels and everything that comes with it.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
I didn't get the feeling that either of them thought that would be the case in five years.
Guert and Owen seemed content (or resigned) not to think about their relationship beyond one day at a time.
so is getting on one knee to propose, though
We do things like that when we want to impress other people. Everyone acts once in a while – I think the difference is if we act as we aspire ourselves to be, as better people, or as amoral actors.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
okay, I suppose.
However, I don’t believe that he was in that moment attempting to be geniune with Pella. I think he was attempting to inhabit a George Clooney-esque alternate reality universe.
I don't know that I hate him
But I don’t love him. I think Pella just outgrew him, which at 22 (is that how old she is?) is to be expected.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
I kept wondering why he was so eager to win Pella back.
he doesn’t seem to show anything resembling love for her, and living with her being miserable can’t have been particularly enjoyable.
I think it's a "that's what you do" reaction
Everything is about appearances. The trophy wife doesn’t leave you — you leave the trophy wife when you’ve got a replacement. David didn’t have a replacement yet. (I mean, I’m guessing that’s what happened with his first wife.)
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
also possibly habit
Even if you don’t really “love” anyone anymore, a relationship has so many strings to it that just seem comfortable. Sometimes it is more comfortable and easier to stay together, because being alone seems to be scary and weird.
Think of how often people get asked “are you still single?” but a relationship is assumed to be the default state.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I think that's a cultural thing
As someone who lives in San Francisco, it’s not really the norm out here to be married (especially under the age of 30) unlike the midwest (where all my family is). But I wonder if David is in the same circles I am… probably not. He probably lives on Russian Hill.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
perhaps not even married
But to be ALONE is thought as kind of odd in many places. At least have someone you are seeing, even if you aren’t ready to settle down.
Or else, once they had a relationship established, it feels weird when it isn’t there. When my fiance and I broke up, it was odd to talk to friends that we shared when we weren’t together, it felt strange not to get food he liked when I went to the grocery store, it felt weird to be able to sleep in the middle of the bed.
I KNEW I was much better off, but it felt like a piece of my life was missing anyway. I didn’t want it back, exactly, but it felt uncomfortable and disorienting to have it gone.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Yeah, I think that's fair
I just have a hard time wrapping my head around being 19 and married. And I know a lot of people that are ALONE (but with lots of friends).
I would disagree that being ALONE is thought of as odd in San Francisco, but I’ll buy that if you’ve always been married (and David’s been married continuously for far longer with his first wife), suddenly being alone would be strange.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
It was normal a generation ago
My older relatives and even my boss tell me how they were married with 2 kids by the time they were 22.
No one had that time to be alone, so maybe that’s just what he knows or expects he needs to do.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
my parents got married after college
Which I guess is kind of early now, but it was because they met each other in college and didn’t see the point of waiting for no reason.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
So who is everyone's favorite character?
Did we decide if Mike Schwartz is a jerk yet? :P
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I wonder if people are still bothered by Schwartz's manipulations to get Henry in the game in those first few chapters.
I thought about that as I was pondering David’s various manipulations of Pella. I was prepared to call Mike the anti-David, and I still think he is, but they both have a superior ability to control a situation.
That doesn't bother me too much.
Schwartz, I mean. It was really a pretty transparent ploy, and reminds me of a coach keeping someone out of a lineup with “illness” or “he’s dinged up” instead of saying “he kind of stinks and this rookie kid is better than he is.”
There isn’t as much meanness to it at the heart.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
You mean like putting Brad Thomas on the DL instead of sending him straight to hell?
"King of Minutiae"
hee hee, perhaps something like that
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I keep expecting you to add that to your signature.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Hahaha! I just love that line.
I can picture that happening in a farm house in South Dakota.
It’s going to come up in game threads.
"King of Minutiae"
What motivates Pella to sleep with Henry?
I stupidly didn’t realize what was happening there until the chapter ended. I’m still not sure I entirely understand that dynamic.
Boredom?
I didn’t really get it either. But it seemed like she thought she was helping him and maybe was a little mad at Mike for abandoning her for Henry all those times?
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
So, are there enough people who haven't finished that I should avoid spoiling the final scenes?
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST reply actions
I've been speaking in code
or trying to, at least. haha
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
go ahead
It’s the last post, and my own fault for not finishing yet. I can cope with spoilers.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
DON'T WORRY ABOUT SPOILERS, PEOPLE
Out with it! It’s a post for discussion, so discuss!
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I was grossed out by the ending
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
yeah, I'm not sure how necessary that was.
On the one hand, it gets the four remaining principal characters together for one last crazy adventure. On the other hand, it seems like it was written for Hollywood.
I would have preferred
if they got there, ready to go, and decided against going through with it and just sat around the cemetery drinking and crying and laughing.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
I liked that it was at least realistic
I mean, they went with the romantic imagery of Emerson and then realized part way through that dead bodies are kind of gross.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
hee hee, yes
“Isn’t this profound…” to “ewwww, a body.”
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
burial at sea?
Funny how we focus so much on what happens to a body after the soul is gone (if you believe in a soul). There’s nothing left and yet we worry about respect almost more for the dead than we do for the living.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Close, but not quite
I could have dealt with a standard burial at sea.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
why would Mike let her go through with it?
Just enabling her crazy behavior!
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
hmmm
Maybe because he could tell it was important to her. David would have been relentlessly sensible and talked her out of it. Maybe he was hoping that she could find “closure” by taking him out of the ground.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
but..... crazy. And illegal, I think?
and bad for the environment! Sometimes, the ones that we love must talk us off the crazy ledge.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
not so bad for the environment, really
Scavengers will take care of that. It is illegal to just dispose of bodies, though.
Although I’m not sure if what they did would qualify as grave-robbing in any sense, because although they didn’t have any kind of order to disinter the body it would have been Pella’s decision anyway. Definitely a crazy thing to do.
But I kind of see what she was thinking. It didn’t seem right to leave her father in the ground, and she felt as though she had to put him in the water. I think if she didn’t she couldn’t have just put it aside but she would have kept worrying at it.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I think it's actually better for the environment
Compost and all that. It reminded me of the end of Six Feet Under.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't seen it
I have no problems with “untraditional” burials, but there are different ways to go about it.
Maybe I’m just a stick in the ol’ cemetery mud or something.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
I think it was a bit for Owen too
I mean, they glossed over the actual funeral, but I’m betting this was his only farewell where he could acknowledge the fact that he had a deep relationship with Affenlight.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
that's a really good point
He couldn’t really say anything except around a few people who already knew and he knew they wouldn’t say anything about it afterwards.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
right,
but was it necessary to dig up the body and throw it into the lake?
I understand that it was a moment for closure for everyone, but I think it went too far.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
People react to death in weird ways
I’m not sure I could ever dig up a body, but I could see doing something totally insane like that if I was told my dad died suddenly of a heart attack and I had to deal with it.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
I never go to funerals
Partly because I always have the urge to giggle. Everyone is so serious and sad about the loss, and rightly so, but I can’t help imagining how the person would actually act if he or she could talk to them and tell them to lighten up, or not to act so silly because he was 95 years old, for Pete’s sake, and was going to leave soon anyway.
They just seem so stilted and artificially formal, which is fine if that is what the survivors want, but it doesn’t always seem conducive to any level of comfort.
I could see myself doing something weird, especially if I had the feeling that I had some kind of obligation and if I didn’t fulfill it no one else would.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I want Jim Henson's funeral
Where a bunch of Muppets started singing.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
YES
I want a celebratory funeral. At least if I predecease my parents they know what I want – donate anything that can be used and then cremate whatever is left. All I ask is that the urn not be pink and don’t drop my ashes on the floor and then vacuum them up.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I do think it was a nice touch
That the book ended just as it began – Henry fielding grounders over and over in the heat, but without the perfection that he showed in the beginning, and yet the same evident talent that Schwartz had seen at the start.
It could have seem contrived, but for the fact that so often we really do go back to things we have done before and loved in the past.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
What do you think of Henry not eating?
It seemed to be almost going back to that skinny kid he used to be, before he messed up and when he was seemingly more confident.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
I thought it was part of him quitting everything
An almost slow suicide.
As soon as he turned over the ball, he just checked out from life.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
It was so sad.
The worst part is that no one could reach him. It wasn’t as though he was drinking like a fish and his friends could intervene. An intervention requires someone to be reachable, and he wasn’t.
The lack of caring reminded me a bit of Pella when she was talking about the boredom of being alive when she was married to David when she was first introduced. Just a weariness with life – and that shouldn’t happen to someone in their teens or early 20’s. Haven’t done enough to get tired of the world yet. :/
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
There was something weirdly more intentional about it, though
which I didn’t fully understand. It’s at the end of Chapter 68 when Pella is kicking him out, and he thinks about eating as turning him into the guy on the SuperBoost jar, which is his old routine. Not eating made him happy.
that's the part that reminds me of the traditional thinking about eating disorders
That it is a way of controlling something. He couldn’t control where the throws went as he always used to, but at least he could control if he ate or not.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
That's a good point.
I hadn’t been thinking about it in that frame, but it does help explain a lot of that chapter.
Here's a question I have
Do you think of the book as having a happy ending, or not?
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
yeah
I think everyone’s in a better place than when the book started, there’s kind of a sense of hope.
Man, the WhiteSox... they suck. And we're gonna show the Twins that they suck too. - Phil Coke @ TigerFest 2011
I think so too.
It’s as though everyone has gone through their tough times and see the way forward.
Like Henry finding his throwing accuracy again, everyone has found their place.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Arguably Affenlight isn't in a better place
But point taken. :)
I do think it’s a happy ending… not total sunshine and roses, but not misery and dispair either.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 23, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
There's a way forward for every character. That's a happy ending.
It’s a matter of calculus. It’s not where you are at the end, it’s the trajectory you’re on at that point.
Calculus. :)
I love the analogies we come up with here. :)
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Shoot, I didn't know it was so late.
Fun discussion, everyone. Have a great Thanksgiving and I’ll ask about if we want to read another book after the holidays. See you all around the internetwebs. :D
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
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