Arbitration decisions due on Betemit, Ordonez
by Tigerdog1 on Nov 23, 2011 11:14 AM EST
in Detroit Tigers Analysis
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PrintThe Tigers have until midnight, tonight, to decide whether to offer arbitration to free agents Magglio Ordonez and Wilson Betemit. Should the Tigers offer arbitration and the players sign with another club, the Tigers would then receive an additional draft pick in the supplemental round between the first and second rounds in next June's amateur draft. Dave Dombrowski has said that it is unlikely that the Tigers would be bringing Ordonez back for the 2012 season, and that the club was unlikely to pursue Betemit, at least in the early stages of the off season. If arbitration is offered, players have until Dec. 7 to decide whether to accept or decline the offer.
Realistically, the Tigers will not offer arbitration to Ordonez unless there is a "gentlemens' agreement" that he will decline the offer so that the club could receive compensation upon his departure. There is a chance that Betemit will receive an arbitration offer if the Tigers would be happy to have him back on a reasonable one year contract, as an alternative to Brandon Inge and Don Kelly at third base. Betemit is probably the most potent offensive third base option on the free agent market this winter, with the exception of the Cubs' Aramis Ramirez.
The incentive to offer compensation and add a supplemental draft pick has been diminished under the terms of the new CBA that were announced on Tuesday. Under the new rules, clubs have overall spending limits on the amount that they can invest in draft bonuses. In the past, the Tigers have used the supplemental first round to draft Nick Castellanos, who is the top rated position prospect in the organization. Castellanos required an "over slot" bonus payment to forego college and join the Tiger organization.
Other notable arbitration decisions to watch include whether clubs will offer arbitration to Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Roy Oswalt, CJ Wilson, Jose Reyes, David Ortiz, and Jimmy Rollins. Those seven, in addition to Jonathan Papelbon who has already signed with the Phillies, are the only players that will require their new clubs to give up a draft choice as compensation for signing them under the terms of the new CBA. Most are expected to be offered arbitration as they are sure to seek lucrative multi year contracts through free agency.
The Tigers would be free to pursue Toronto second baseman Kelly Johnson, or any other free agent player without having to give up a draft pick, as they had to give up when they signed free agents such as Victor Martinez and Jose Valverde in recent years. Clubs can receive compensation for other free agent players that are classified as Type A and Type B under the terms of the expiring CBA, by offering arbitration, if the player declines and signs with another club. In those cases, the signing club would not have to give up any compensation to sign the player. A complete list of this year's free agents is here.
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Twins will offer arbitration to Kubel and Cuddyer
Minnesota does not have to offer arbitration to Matt Capps, because they will receive a supplemental first round pick for him under the terms of the new CBA (unless they resign Capps). If all three players leave via free agency, that will be one extra first round pick and three “sandwich” round picks for the Twins. They’re one club that really needs to get about the business of rebuilding.
"King of Minutiae"
I like the way TD is the first reply to TD's post
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 23, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I figured I'd just keep score of the decisions in the comment thread, rather than update the story three times today :)
"King of Minutiae"
Kurt, what generates more pageviews, updates or comments?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Nov 23, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
with Verlander's Cy Young and MVP I tried it both ways
and to be honest I don’t know. I don’t think it matters in this case.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 23, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yesterday's story on the CBA took on a life of it's own
I never expected that much detail when the announcement was made. They started going into maple bats, chewing tobacco, minor league salaries, and things. But they had enough important detail that I thought updates were necessary.
Today is more of a minor event as far as the Tigers are concerned, IMO. They might offer Betemit, and might go after Kelly Johnson, but now it doesn’t even matter if the Jays offer unless he accepts. Under the old rules, today would be much more important.
"King of Minutiae"
Oddly enough....
I was playing MLB 11: The Show and the Cubs offered me Aramis and a minor league pitcher for Maggs……
by Anthony Steven Lewis on Nov 23, 2011 12:27 PM EST reply actions
what are the arb numbers?
for maggs and wilson?
i sure wouldn’t mind two extra draft picks… as long as we don’t spend them on relief pitchers! (or the growing trend of drafting catchers…)
(Un)Official President of the Team Jacob Turner Fan Club
Yet Another Movie Blog
by DetroitTigersGeek on Nov 23, 2011 12:50 PM EST reply actions
One can only guess at this point
Magglio would get much more than his fair market value, because two of the main criteria in arbitration are years of service time and salary history. Those are two things that GM’s don’t care about when signing a free agent. They only care about current production. The only way Magglio is offered is if DD has a handshake deal with Boras to decline arbitration so that the club gets compensated when he walks.
Betemit had a one year deal for $ 1 million last year. His offensive numbers are pretty good by comparison with a very weak field of 3B on the free agent market. Only A Ramirez is clearly better offensively. But Betemit’s defense has been pretty bad, and he’s never been a full time player. Never qualified for a batting title. So a range of $ 2 million might be reasonable. DD doesn’t usually play the game of offering arbitration if he’s not prepared to bring the player back. It sure looked like Betemit had lost favor with Leyland in the playoffs, as he watched Don Kelly and Inge getting the playing time at 3B. I would offer arby to Betemit, but I have a feeling that the Tigers won’t.
This is the last year that we go through this process. Next year, it’ll be offers of $ 12.4 million plus required to get compensation at all. I can’t see the Tigers making that kind of offer to Delmon or Inge a year from now.
"King of Minutiae"
It'll be very disappointing
If the Tigers go into the ’12 season with Inge/Kelly or Betemit as their third baseman.
Headley Lamar doesn’t thrill me either … but at least he brings some hope. The possibility for an upside.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Betemit is a defensive liability
But he’s got a bat, and considering the offense chasm at 3B otherwise, I think it’s a fair compromise.
We could do worse---
such as Inge/ Kelly
but I’d hope we do better than any of that.
"King of Minutiae"
Jerry Hairston?
He can play all around the infield. But he’s 35 years old. Forget about Aramis. What other options do we really have?
Trades, pretty much
DD may also hold some spending power in reserve and make an in season move like he did last year. Maybe they’ll give Danny Worth a shot, especially if they figure that 15 game margin is for real. Looked pretty real to me.
"King of Minutiae"
Hedley Lamarr...
…the corrupt Attorney General of Nevada from Blazing Saddles?
Goodness gracious I love that movie.
by frisbeepilot on Nov 23, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Now go do, that voodoo, that you do, so weeEEeeeell
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
More decisions
Orioles decline on Vlad Guererro (B)
Rangers offer to CJ Wilson (A), Darren Oliver (new B)is an automatic B under the new deal
White Sox offer to Buehrle (B), not to Juan Pierre (B)
A’s offer to DeJesus (B) and Willingham (A)- neither would cost a draft pick to sign
Takashi Saito and Carlos Beltran, both A’s, have clauses that prohibit arbitration offers
The five automatic B offers are Darren Oliver, Matt Capps, Francisco Cordero, Octavio Dotel, and Ramon Hernandez
The only one so far that will cost a draft pick to sign is CJ Wilson.
"King of Minutiae"
A few more
Royals offered arby to Bruce Chen (B) That leaves the Tigers as the last AL Central team to announce their arby decisions
Brewers offered arbitration to Prince Fielder (A) of course, and Frankie Rodriguez (A- no compensation), and declined to offer Yuniesky Betancourt (B) who was taken as a concession to KC in the Greinke trade.
Padres have offered to Heath Bell (A- no compensation) and Aaron Harang (B)
Braves declined to offer Alex Gonzalez (B)- they really want a new shortstop
"King of Minutiae"
I meant to add that KC is reportedly working towards a deal with Chen
He wants 2 years and over $ 10 mil total. He had a decent year, and he was one that some suggested the Tigers might pick up on the cheap, but his history, SIERA and other predictors don’t suggest he’s that good.
Also from the group above, the Tigers had some reported interest in Harang at the deadline last year. I don’t fancy his chances of a successful transition out of Petco to the AL. Road splits were nasty. Pass.
"King of Minutiae"
A few more decisions
No word yet on the Tigers’ decisions
Phillies have offered arbitration to Ibanez (B), Madson (A- no compensation) and Rollins (A)
Phillies have declined to offer arbitration to Roy Oswalt- no compensation for him (get him DD) If all those players sign with other clubs, the Phillies stand to gain 2 first or second round picks plus 3 sandwich round picks, and they lose their own first round pick for signing Papelbon.
The Mets have offered arbitration to Jose Reyes (A)
Cards have offered arbitration to Pujols (A), and Edwin Jackson (B) but declined to offer Rafael Furcal (B) or Arthur Rhodes (B). Octavio Dotel is an automatic comp’ed Type B
Furcal may be a player that gets moved to second base, which might interest the Tigers on a short term deal.
Bruce Chen, two years to the Royals, $ 9 million plus $ 1 million in a roster bonus (just make the team) and up to $ 1 mil more in incentives. Let’s hope the Tigers figure out how to hit him this year.
"King of Minutiae"
Ibanez
Philly has to have a handshake agreement w this guy
by Wolverine119 on Nov 26, 2011 4:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
people who are smarter than me.....
am i reading way too much into the fact that the tigers have not yet announced anything about betemit? (i’m assuming ordonez is a definite non-tender) it just seems odd it’s after 9 est and no announcement. could there be any moves coming? last minute trying to explore all possible 3rd base options? keep in mind- this is the time of year i check this site and mlb trade rumors every 11 minutes or so (sad i know), it is entirely possible i am just so ready to have something happen that i read into everything.
already did. looked like it was just the cleaning crew in there.
by atlantatiger on Nov 23, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
well it's 1030 and the red sox just made their announcement
so keep checking back every 11 minutes until midnight ;)
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 23, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Might just stay right here....
you know, just in case.
by atlantatiger on Nov 23, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
DD is waiting to see if the deals for Wright and Prado go through
And if Cespdes will accept 5 yrs/$35MM
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Ok it's now midnite
And I’m sleepy. If I wake up to a 3 team trade that changes the whole complexion of the team I’m going to be pissed.
So....anything?
"Goaltending is a normal job, sure. How would you like it in your job if every time you made a small mistake, a red light went on over your desk and 15,000 people stood up and yelled at you."
-Jacques Plante
tigers appear to be the only team without an announcement
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 24, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Ah damn
"Goaltending is a normal job, sure. How would you like it in your job if every time you made a small mistake, a red light went on over your desk and 15,000 people stood up and yelled at you."
-Jacques Plante
by DetroitSports on Nov 24, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
I get their media releases and they haven't squat
I suppose they don’t have to tell us, but kinda weird.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 24, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Who usually tells the media about this stuff? MLB office?
MLBPA gives all the contract details.
The club has to have paperwork in by a deadline.
"King of Minutiae"
Here are the others not listed above
Yankees offered arbitration to Freddy Garcia and are reported near an extension with him
Red Sox offered to Dan Wheeler and David Ortiz. Wonder if Papi will decline and go for one last multi year contract.
Jays offered to Frank Francisco and Kelly Johnson, but still no compensation required for him. They also offered to Jose Molina and Jon Rauch, but declined Shawn Camp.
Giants declined Cody Ross and Pat Burrell. Beltran (A) can’t be offered.
Some of these could be handshake deals where the player declines.
Did I get them all down? Should be 21 Type A’s and 32 Type B’s all together.
"King of Minutiae"
If we get Kelly Johnson
Then we’d have the Kelly Kelly combo at 2nd/3B. Just like the WWE!
Here’s Kelly Kelly with some homeboys.
Pic credit to guyism.com
Was that photo taken in someone's basement?
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
ok so i'm up now
doesn’t dd understand he has a segment of fan base that waits around for stuff like arbitration announcements? my wife doesn’t understand either……anyway, i guess this just means no news is no offer. which leads to the obvious follow up, they aren’t really going with inge/kelly are they? ok enough role players, but come on.
Okay, some of these arbitration offers are clearly bogus
There is no specific rule against these “gentlemens’ agreements” but they just smell of corruption. Compensation was meant to compensate clubs for losing players that they can not afford to pay. When you see a veteran player declining arbitration even though he’d clearly get more through arbitration than he will get as a free agent, it’s just rotten. We’ll probably have another half dozen supplemental first round picks that are based on bogus agreements. Buster Olney suggests that Ibanez, Harang, Jose Molina, and DeJesus are likely to decline on the basis of such agreements.
Good thing the new CBA will do away with that. No player is going to agree to decline a bogus offer of $ 12.4 million when it results in his new club giving up a first round pick on top of a mega deal.
"King of Minutiae"
Count Molina out
He’s already got a two year deal pretty much worked out with the Rays and was coming off a career year with the bat, if you want the questionable deal from the Jays look at the Rauch offer.
WORTH THE GAMBLE
Free agent outfielder Yoenis Cespedes is scheduled to work out with the Tigers, according to John Lowe of the Detroit Free Press.
I would love to sign yoenis cespedes even if its for 15 mil per year or so i feel he may be one of the best players in the league.
If hes willing to play left field thats ideal but if not jackson can cash us in a nice 2nd baseman in a trade i figure
We don't really know if Cespedes is immediately major league ready
apparently has a bundle of skills, though.
"King of Minutiae"
P.S
I visit this site and WIM about 15 times a day each and read mostly all the comments but i never really ever comment to throw in my 2 cents but i think i may start joining in. why not ehhhhhhh
15M is a lot to gamble
He wont’ get that from anyone until he’s translated his skills into success at the major league leve.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Did the Tigers find a loophole in the new CBA?
Or did the kid who was supposed to fax in the arby decline list to MLB offices call in sick on Wednesday?
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
DD is too busy to contact the MLB
He has to find some good Cuban cigars and keep an eye on the Townsend Hotel.
by manic in Detroit on Nov 25, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Have patience.
Not much will be announced, due to its being a holiday weekend.
by Avid Reader on Nov 25, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Every other team in MLB has announced
Except the Tigers. The announcement was due at midnight Wednesday.
Somebody messed up.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
by Singledigit on Nov 25, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
The Tigers usually play it close to the vest.
It’s one of the things I like about Dombrowski.
Here's a new, sort-of "update" from MLBTR
“Though the Tigers haven’t made an official announcement regarding Wilson Betemit and Magglio Ordonez, it appears that they declined to offer either player arbitration.”
If everyone else has "gentlemen understandings" then why can't the Tigers?
I’d like to hear DD’s explanation for not offering arbitration to Betemit. It seems like it would have been advantageous for the Tiger had he accepted OR declined.
If he accepts, we have a platoon mate with Inge at 3B at a very reasonable cost. If he declines, the Tigers get a sandwich pick in the 2012 amateur draft.
Win win.
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
Impact on the Draft
Still no word from the Tigers, officially, but here are the arbitration numbers for the season:
Seven Type A free agents that WILL require compensation were offered arbitration. If those players decline by December 7 and sign with new clubs, either a first or second round pick will change hands, and there will be 7 new picks in the “sandwich” round. Papelbon has already signed from among this group.
Six more Type A players do not require compensation, and all of them were offered arbitration. This group includes Kelly Johnson. Should these players decline and sign with new clubs, there will be an additional six draft picks added to the first or second rounds, plus six more sandwich picks.
24 Type B players required offers of arbitration that were offered, adding up to 24 more picks to the sandwich round. Five of these players became automatic compensation Type B players under the new CBA. Ordonez and/ or Betemit would be added to this group if they were offered arbitration (which seems unlikely). Freddy Garcia has agreed to terms with the Yankees, his former club, so that possible number is reduced by one.
In total, up to 36 picks will be made in the “sandwich round” between the first and second rounds in the June draft. Up to seven picks in the first two rounds will change hands, and up to six additional picks will be added in the first two rounds. For each player that signs with his former club, these numbers will decline. Add approximately one full round of players- 30- between the first two rounds. This is the last time this will happen.
"King of Minutiae"
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