Tigers sign Ramon Santiago to 2-year deal
Looks like Razor Ramon is sticking around.
Via Twitter, Jason Beck has comments from Jim Leyland and Dave Dombrowski in regard to a 2nd base platoon with the return of Santiago:
Leyland: "Santiago and Ryan Raburn will be playing 2B as the club stands today." Didn't rule out possibility of adding somebody.
Dombrowski: "We are set to open with Santiago and Raburn. However, we will see what happens."
Are you happy with a Santiago/Raburn platoon at 2nd base?
Update: Reports say he got $4 million for 2 years.
6 months ago
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This thin market probably means a good payday for him
I’m thinking he got about $2.5 – $3 million a year.
He got 2 years / $4 Million
So I wasn’t that far off.
Interested to see how much we paid for him
becuase that’ll give a hint as to if we’re still looking for more infield help or not. With Ramon back, I’d like to see us find an infielder primarily at 3B.
I can live with this
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uh oh
Danny Worth’s Very Strong Jaw just lost his spot on the bench
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by rock n rye on Nov 30, 2011 3:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
I like this
Depending on the amount of money, I really can’t complain about this. I just hope Ramon gets 60% of the starts in a Santiago/Raburn platoon if DD doesn’t get someone else to play 2nd.
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
Santiago
Good move. Players are labelled “not everyday” and that is not always fair. If Santiago gets to play a lot more, who is to say he will not improve his stats? Remember Jose Bautista was “not an everyday player” for years. Obviously, Santiago is not in the same class but front office/field manager labels for players are often wrong.
Let’s acquire: 3B, then SP (not another “innings eater” like Penny who looked like he consumed a lot more than innings) and an LH RP
That's good news for Santiago and Raburn
I’ve grown to enjoy them in this platoon. At 2B, the Tigers offense ranked among the best during the 2nd half of last season. Raburn lead the majors at 2B with a .341 batting average/ .393 OBP / and .967 OPS. Santiago was no slouch either, he hit .295, .343 OBP, .816 OPS.
There is much to be desired defensively though. Hopefully those hot bats can carry over to the 1st half of next season.
I'd be surprised if he got more than $2 million.
He signed on to play a role just six weeks ago he rejected which tells me there was not much demand for his services, at least not as he envisioned it. Can’t imagine his salary more than doubling under these circumstances.
Please sign Kelly Johnson now..
Hed fix the infield and allow Raburn to the outfield and fix the depth in OF too. I like the resigning of Santiago, but DD shouldn’t be done working yet.
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Meh.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
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Raburn/Ramon have interesting split
Ramon hits better at home and during day games and Raburn is the opposite. Raburn hits better on the road and at night games. They both hit LH pitching than RH pitching. Raburn is a great 2nd half player that needs a spot after the All-star game. I rather see him in LF or RF instead of 2B.
Wright and be done.
No to Kelly Johnson
No to another starting pitcher
Beg Mr. I for another 14 million. See if you can trade everyone short of Turner for Wright.
Start winner of Below/Turner/Whoever spring training duel.
Maybe sign cheap one year bullpen piece
Be done. Play baseball.
sarcastic jinxing ass
I don't see the good in your thinking.
Wright isn’t who he used to be. I’m not trading Castellanos and without either of those two, I highly doubt the Mets will part ways.
I just think 3rd base is one position where we could make up the most ground
Wright still has a lot left in the tank. You never know on prospects. Plus I what to see him a wear that hideous shirt with himself silkscreened huge all over the front.
jinxing ass
I am happy with a Raburn/Ramon at 2nd
Just not full time.
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by DetroitTigersGeek on Nov 30, 2011 5:24 PM EST reply actions
I'm a little south of, "meh."
At 32 and 33 Santiago will likely decline from poor offensive and mediocre defensive numbers. On the other hand he also likely won’t play much.
If Illitch wants to spend an extra $3 million for a defensive replacement out of loyalty or because Santiago is relatively low risk I guess I don’t care much though.
Do NOT tender Delmon Young an offer.
I guess this is gonna end up giving you fits then...
"Goaltending is a normal job, sure. How would you like it in your job if every time you made a small mistake, a red light went on over your desk and 15,000 people stood up and yelled at you."
-Jacques Plante
by DetroitSports on Nov 30, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in favor
Ramon has shown over the years that he’s a very valuable utility role-player. $2M is about par for the course for a guy with his skill set and MLB experience. What I don’t like is the expectation that he’ll be a platooner w/ Raburn at 2B. He’s got a decent bat, and a decent glove — any team would love to have a bench guy like him. He’s earned his $2M a year IMHO, and he performs his role without complaint.
Still, we need to find some regulars to fill 2B and 3B. Platooning 2 out of the 4 infield positions is just not acceptable.
Hardly a move that puts us over the top
but, whatever. I’m sure there’s more to come so hopefully DD can find a way to get some of the pieces we need.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Nov 30, 2011 6:56 PM EST reply actions
I'm fine with Santiago being on the roster,
but starting the season with Santiago and/ or Raburn as our second baseman, OR returning with Inge/ Kelly at third base would be just negligent. The Tigers desperately need to upgrade the top of the batting order, and there are two spots where they can pull that off, barring another move in the outfield.
Santiago doesn’t get on base enough to bat first or second. Raburn is as bad, if not worse than any second baseman in the league defensively, and is no lock to hit like he did in the second half of 2011.
We have our utility guy back. Keep looking for the ugrade. Prado, Maicer, etc.
"King of Minutiae"
It isn't negligent
DD was trying to upgrade, but the best he could do so far is get back Santiago.
I don’t think we have desperate needs to upgrade the top of the batting order either. I agree that there is some room for improvement, but we’re just not desperate like you said. It won’t be easy to improve upon AJax, Boesch, and Young either. They were actually above league average in runs scored this past season.
The problem is that we’d have to give up a significant piece of talent to make a significant improvement. Delmon Young really isn’t much of trading chip either. I want Izturis or Prado just like you do. They would help, where they might add 10 runs of offense and save 10 runs with their defense. I just don’t think we have the prospects to land either player. Boesch is really the only guy that can net us something good like them in return.
Here’s a spreadsheet snip I have of AL runs scored by batting order-
We don't necessarily need to pull off a trade, but standing pat now is negligent, IMO
There are trades, such as maybe Izturis or Prado, and I don’t think they’d take Boesch to get them. Izturis, in particular, can probably be had for a decent reliever. Just have to be willing to part with some sacred draft picks like Perry or Schlereth- which I’d do in a heartbeat.
There is also Kelly Johnson, and Aramis Ramirez. Free agents that will cost a bit of money, but they’d be addressing a need that we’ve had for a few years in each case. Time for DD to right his wrongs of the recent past, once and for all. He botched both 3B and 2B last year. Time to fix them, and I think he will.
Your chart shows runs scored. They scored runs because they have the best RBI man in the game right behind them, followed by a murderer’s row of solid RBI men. You have to look at each position individually and see where improvement is needed.
- 3 Slot:
Magglio, 228 AB .219 .276 .272 .548, 2 HR, 19 RBI
Delmon; 149 AB .267 .294 .443 .737, 8 HR, 32 RBI
Boesch; 187 AB .339 .379 .575 .955, 11 HR, 32 RBI
Overall, Tigers were 6th in AVG, 13th in OBP, 7th in Slg, and 9th in OPS.
First half Boesch is a legit No. 3 hitter. Second half Boesch is an AAAA player. I just wish he didn’t hurt his thumb so we’d know better what we’ve got there, and whether his first half adjustments held through the end of the season. He bolstered the stats for the No. 2 slot, but at a time when Magglio was the worst 3 hitter in the league. Maggs stayed in that slot almost until we got Delmon, then DY and his sub .300 OBP went into the 3 slot. That OBP in front of Cabrera is negligent, IMO. It’s BB or bust in the 3 hole. I’m willing to try it.
- 2 Slot:
Boesch; 142 AB .211 .277 .338 .615, 4 HR, 12 RBI
Kelly…: 106 AB .255 .313 .415 .728, 4 HR, 15 RBI
Santiago 74 AB .297 .341 .419 .760, 1 HR, 10 RBI
Overall, Tigers were 9th in AVG, 9th in OBP, 9th in Slg, 8th in OPS, and dead last in SB with just 4.
Coming back again with this would be negligent when there is a chance to upgrade it would be negligent, IMO.
- 1 Slot:
Jackson 562 AB, .246 .314 .373 .687, 10 HR, 45 RBI, 20 SB
Overall, Tigers were 12th in AVG, 11th in OBP, 10th in Slg, 10th in OPS, and 11th in Steals.
This just doesn’t cut it, and I think DD is very well aware of that. I fully expect a new lead off man by opening day, and he’s not currently on the roster.
We need two guys that can get on base well enough to bat first or second, and play solid defense at 2B and 3B. But that’s not Santiago, it’s not Raburn, it’s not Inge, and it’s not Donnie Kelly.
If DD can swap out an outfielder for one of the two hitters, that works just as well, and we can live with a lack of offense or defense at one of the infield spots.
"King of Minutiae"
We've already heard rumors that DD has shown interest in Prado and Izturis.
If those guys were easy to land, then we’d have them already. Those teams obviously want some significant talent in return. The Braves didn’t forget that Prado was an All-Star in 2010. The Angels didn’t suddenly forget that Izturis has been one of the best utility guys over the past several seasons. They are not fools. Those guys have a lot of value and that’s why we want them.
Kelly Johnson wouldn’t be much of an upgrade at 2B. He was pretty horrendous this past season. The guy strikes out a ton and he had a lower OBP than AJax. The platoon of Santiago and Raburn was actually just as good or better. He’d probably cost $5+ million a year also.
ARam would be a huge improvement at 3B, but he would give us a negative surplus value. He’s probably worth about $9 Million, but he’d cost around $14 Million a year. Plus we’d still be paying Inge $5.5 Million on top of that. So he’d actually cost us about $20 million for the 2012 season alone.
Right now, we don’t have many trade chips like Francisco Martinez, Casper Wells, or Chance Ruffin. We’ll probably have to wait until next year or the season after to that for some prospects to gain trade value. We are almost bone dry at AA and AAA, most of our top prospects are pretty raw and need a few years to develop before they’ll be worth anything.
We can try to trade unproven relievers like Perry and Schlereth, but they won’t fetch us much because proven guys like Darren Oliver and Octavio Dotel are still available on Free Agent market.
Regarding trades
I doubt there has been any serious discussion regarding any of these players. My guess is that DD is just doing his homework to see who is available in preparation for the Winter Meetings.
I'm not saying those guys are easy to land, but they can be had
I just don’t expect that you can get Martin Prado, straight up for Delmon Young. Izturis was mentioned in talks with the Rockies before they sent Ianetta to the Angels for Tyler Chatwood. They can both be had, but it’s just a matter of working out a price.
I disagree on Kelly Johnson. He’s a second baseman. Raburn is simply not an infielder. Kelly had a bad year at the plate, but he still would be a big upgrade over what we have, IMO. Figure at least $ 6 mil per year, for two or three years. Many of those that needed a 2B have filled their vacancies, so his price should be coming down into affordable range.
Inge’s salary is spent. Consider it a bad cover charge and either move on or use him where he has some value, but by no stretch of the imagination do you “blame” his salary on another player. Aramis would cost about 14- 15 mil per year, and his offensive numbers justify that cost, as long as he stays healthy.
I’d make any prospect not named Turner or Castellanos available to fill the vacancies at 2B and 3B, or somehow add a bona fide top of the order bat.
"King of Minutiae"
Yes, they can be had, but for equal talent in return
The Braves and Angels aren’t rebuilding, they are top contenders in their division. They won’t be giving up those players for just a pile of iffy prospects. They’d probably want a top prospect like Castellanos or a true MLB talent like AJax or Boesch. The only way we’re trading one of those guys is if we land Cespedes 1st.
We’ll never agree about Raburn. He has played the infield (2B/3B) most of his major and minor league career. He’s just not very good at it. He’s not the quality defender that we both desire, but that doesn’t mean he’s simply not an infielder. Don’t bother telling me about all the defensive metrics either, I know what they are. At the end of the day, he probably will be playing 2B in a platoon with Santiago. Reason being is that Raburn was the best offensive 2B during the 2nd half of last season. Here’s the link- He batted .341 with a .967 OPS. That Santi/Raburn platoon is nothing to sneeze at.
I might also shy away from dealing Smyly for depth reasons
But yeah, in the right deal I’d deal him too.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
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by David Tokarz on Dec 1, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm
This makes it seem more likely they’re going to go after A-Ram and I don’t really like that. If we wanted an aging third baseman who’s defense and speed are subpar we may as well have kept Betemit for a fraction of what Ramirez will get.
It's not a best-case scenario
But I think Dombrowski sees a narrow window for the Tigers to win it all. Verlander and Cabrera are in their primes. The youngsters are contributing. We’re shedding over-due veteran talent. We’ve got a few surprise talents that may not last. I’m not one to sell the farm on a “win now” attitude, but it just may be prudent to bring in Aramis.
I’m 65/45 in favor of getting some solid veterans in the waning portion of their careers to put us over the top.
I like it when someone gives 110%
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
by Singledigit on Nov 30, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope that the "We'll see what happens" portion of DD's quote is revealing...
I love Ramon on the roster, but right now we’re staring at half an infield comprised of Don Kelly, Brandon Inge, Ramon Santiago, and Ryan Raburn. If this is the way they go into next year, I won’t be pleased.
Personally, I still feel like a significant move will be made this offseason and Ramon will stay in the utility role.
I agree with this completely ^
I’m pretty sure that the Tigers are still looking for a lead off hitter. That could be an infielder or an outfielder. They’re not necessarily sold on Delmon in left, on Santiago/ Raburn at second, or Inge/ Kelly at third base. I doubt they upgrade all of those positions, but I think that DD is open to an upgrade if it’s reasonably priced.
At this point in the off season, there probably isn’t anyone that they have clearly identified like they did Victor and Benoit last year. Most likely, DD will wait out the market until he can either sign a free agent or two for a reasonable term, or make a trade when the pieces fall into place.
"King of Minutiae"
Color me "pro-Delmon"
He’s in the fold
He had a bad first half last year, but I think it was a lot to do with his injury. Before and after that ding…he can hit!
I know, I know…He can’t take a walk or field…big deal.
jinxing ass
No problem with Delmon
as long as we get what we need by filling the other vacancies, and let’s not pretend that DY is a No. 3 hitter.
"King of Minutiae"
couldn't agree more
Delmon looks a lot better hitting 6th or 7th.
Is Cespedes the answer? Is he a number 3 type hitter? We’ll have to pay him like he is.
jinxing ass
Word is Cespedes will cost around $40MM for 5 years
That is not “3 hitter” type money. David Wright maked 3 hole hitter type money. $10MM more, per year. Boston and New York have guys in the 3 making $10MM more per year.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
But if you don't put him infront of big bat
And teams can pitch around him, he won’t do as well. Delmon will make a pitcher pay if said pitcher has to throw him strikes, but if you put him in a spot in the lineup where teams can pitch around him, they will and it can be done effectively and easily.
The only way delmon has any worth as a hitter is if he is protected…just ask Minnesota.
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by Siggzilla on Dec 1, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OBP aint' everything
The bottom line is that Delmon scored 28 runs and had 32 RBI’s in just 40 games. That’s a crap load and a half of run production for someone with just a .298 OBP. Just think if he improves that mark. Cha-Ching. Cha-Ching. He would have a monster year.
Boesch, another guy who has a hard time telling a ball from a strike?
His numbers in the 3 last year were terrific. So………..your point about guys like Boesch(my current favorite Tiger)or Young hitting in front of Cabrera and Victor has evidence, and is valid IMO.
As the team stands now, I see Boesch in the 2 and Young in the 3. Neither are your traditional hitters in those roles. But both of them will have what talents they have maximized by hitting in front of Miguel. And while it is easy to suggest any hitter would benefit by hitting directly in front of Miguel, I think both Boesch and Young have an upside that will make them productive enough.
All of that said, I still favor trading Young for Prado, signing Cespedes, and trading Castellanos for Wright. But those are wish sandwiches. As the team stands now, I think Boesch and Young have the potential to hit well enough. As long as they have Cabrera directly behind them. And right now, Boesch and Young are on the team. My “wish sandwich” guys aren’t.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
VERY HAPPY
Not that I’m first on the Santiago bandwagon, but I think he does a good job, and I think the Tigers got a good deal on him. I thought he’d sign a 2yr 6-6.5M deal
It doesn't really make much sense to me
Danny Worth is the exact same player as Ramon and would be 1.5Mil less per year. There is no added benefit to this signing.
I have nothing against Ramon, but that extra 1.5 mil could be better spent somewhere else.
I think it's his role in the clubhouse.
I have no idea how important this role is, but several reports cite this as a factor…especially helping keep Miggy on the straight and narrow.
Must be that "sneaky power"
So sneaky that you can’t see it. Ramon is healthy and stealthy.
"King of Minutiae"
Good point
What Leyland said about Santiago:
“With his teammates, he could be the most popular player we have,” Leyland said.
Our clubhouse is already losing Magglio and Guillen. That’s a pretty big blow to morale already.
Agree, but...
I liken this move as a “safety”. I realize that it is only the first day of December, but I think DD can move forward thinking “If the season started today, Ramon would start at 2B” instead of “If the season started today, Danny Worth would start at 2B.”
Now he is free to move forward as see what DD really means when he says “we will see what happens.”
“We will see what happens” should really concern Ryan Raburn though. Right now, the position players for 2012 are: Miguel Cabrera, Ryan Raburn, Ramon Santiago, Jhonny Peralta, Brandon Inge, Don Kelly, Alex Avila, Gerald Laird, Victor Martinez, Brennan Boesch, Austin Jackson, Delmon Young, and Andy Dirks. If DD does find a more permanent solution at 2B and Ramon goes back to his utility role, then Ryan Raburn is the odd man out.
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
This signing makes me think that we may be giving up on the 2B market
If we were really planning on getting a different 2B option, I think we would have let Santi walk, saved the 2M/yr, and handed the IF-UT job to Danny Worth. Worth has a good, perhaps better glove and the difference in offense over the course of 200 AB’s probably isn’t worth the extra 1.5M that Santi will earn.
However, the rash of middling 2B signings has left the market barren and DD may see the price to trade is higher than he feels comfortable with. And really, Santi / Raburn isn’t the end of the world…it’s not like Macier Izturis over that tandem is going to be much of a difference maker.
Having Worth under control and signing Santiago makes me feel like we’re punting 2B. And that’s actually fine because there’s nothing available that makes me regret it too much. With the crappy state of affairs on the 3B market, we may decide to punt that one as well.
DD’s strategy may actually be to shore up the OF and SP depth through free agent signings. (Adding Cespedes and somebody like Oswalt / Buehrle would certainly do that). That leaves us with two positions of strength to deal from if our 2B and 3B situations still blow at the deadline. Boesch, Jackson, Turner, Crosby, Smyly, and maybe Oliver would all become quite valuable and perhaps surplus trade chips).
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I think DD is trying to save enough money to make a splash
Instead of burning money on high dollar and rather mediocre 2B/3B’s, he’ll go after one of the biggest prizes of this off-season, that being Yoenis Cespedes.
I can see us grabbing Cepsedes and Ramriez provided Ramirez drops his price
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
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by David Tokarz on Dec 1, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
We still needed a utility guy, even if we landed a starting 2B or 3B.
A guy that can play SS. Maybe they think that Worth isn’t up to it. I’m not sure why, but he gets pushed aside whenever there are openings.
"King of Minutiae"
Worth's timing has never been as good as it was four days ago
Santiago has been the team UT-IF for two years, signing in the 2009-2010 off-season. Worth wasn’t ready for the job at that point (his bat was really struggling against AA / AAA pitching), so signing Santiago was prudent. Since then, Santiago has been the UT, so Worth hasn’t had many opportunities to seize the job that’s he’s best suited for. (He could have been considered for the 2B starting job this year or last, but that’s not the role the organization sees him playing – just like the don’t see Santiago in that role either.) This year was the first time we had an opening at the IF-UT position Worth is destined to play. We chose Santiago instead, so I would say he’s certainly been pushed aside this time, but I think it’s the first time.
Anyhow, I disagree with spending 4M on Santiago over Worth unless Santiago’s role is significantly more than 200 AB’s.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

























