SB Nation Detroit Editor's Pick
Tigers' Pitchers: A look at theoretical versus actual performance.
I was interested in looking at how Tigers pitchers performed in actual earned runs allowed compared to FIP and xFIP. Specifically, I was interested in seeing if certain types of Tigers pitchers either exceeded or failed to meet their saber expectations. More after the jump!
Below is a chart that shows how each pitcher who threw more than 20 innings. If a pitcher threw less than 20 innings, then their rate stats are exceptionally unreliable. Also, the chart would be too big. It has columns for Innings pitched, ERA, FIP, fipruns, fipruns-runs,xFIP, xfipruns, xfipruns-runs, and xfipruns-fipruns. Innings pitched, ERA, FIP, and xFIP are all things we're familiar with, and I got the data from fangraphs.Fipruns and xfipruns are calculated by multiplying the pitcher's innings pitched by their FIP and xFIP respectively, and then dividing by 9. This number is the number of runs a player theoretically should have given up, based on their FIP and xFIP.
The fipruns-runs and xfipruns-runs columns are the difference in the player's theoretical runs given up and actual runs allowed. These show by how many runs a pitcher exceeded his FIP and xFIP expectations. If a player has a negative value that means that their actual performance was that many runs worse than what the saber stats predicted, whereas if a player has a positive value in one of these columns, it indicates that the pitcher's performance was that many runs better than what was calculated. So, for example, Verlander should have given up 16 and 20 more runs last season than he did, based on his FIP and xFIP values, respectively.
The last column, xfipruns-fipruns, shows the difference in the number of theoretical runs calculated from FIP and xFIP, which is the difference between the pitcher having a league average home-run per fly-ball rate and the rate with at which they actually allowed flyballs to become homeruns. So, for example, Scherzer's xFIP is quite a bit smaller than his FIP because his HR/FB rate was high, where Coke's xFIP is larger than his FIP because his HR/FB rate was rather low. As the HR/FB rates of pitchers tend to fluctuate quite a bit, using the average rate is better at predicting future performance. However, the Tigers have several pitchers who appear to be consistently good at preventing fly-balls from becoming home-runs, to the point where it, mathematically, looks like a skill and not just a sustained lucky streak. I'll delve into this more in a bit.
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Ultimately, when just looking at ERA, FIP, and xFIP, I was unable to come to any strong conclusions about Tigers' pitchers as a group. No specific group of pitchers was decidedly better or worse in actual performance compared to theoretical expectation. Some ground-ball pitchers exceed the sabermetric expectations, while others fail to meet them. The same is true of the starters, relievers, "good pitchers," "bad pitchers," lefties, righties, veterans, young kids, and every other cluster I can think of. The only thing that really stands out to me is that the pitchers, when taken as a whole, exceeded their FIP expectation by four runs, and their xFIP expectation by 18 runs. When you remove Penny and Perry, the two pitchers on this list who are no longer Tigers, these difference numbers jump to 16 and 30, respectively. Given that FIP and xFIP are often touted for their ability to predict future performance, this would seem to suggest that the Tigers pitching staff, on a whole, is likely to regress.
However (!), xFIP is, as mentioned before, calculated using the league average HR/FB rate as opposed to the player in question's HR/FB rate, and the Tigers have several pitchers on their staff who have long histories of outperforming the league average home run rates (This is especially true if you choose to discount rookie years, which is intuitive, as rookie years have less correlation with career numbers than a player's subsequent seasons). For example, Verlander has never thrown over the league average HR/FB rate, and, thus, xFIP is probably not as accurate a measure of his future performance as FIP is. Valverde has pitched under the league average homerun rate in four of the last five seasons, the lone exception being his first season for the Astros, who, incidentally, play in a park that is consistently in the top 10 in HR Park Factor. Benoit has had a better than average rate in every season since he switched to primarily relief work in 2005. Both Coke and Fister have had two post-rookie seasons of decidedly better than average HR/FB rates, and while it's hard to suggest a career pattern out of two seasons, if they repeat the feat this year it's likely an accurate representation of their skills rather than "luck." Porcello and Scherzer both appear to have more or less average career HR/FB rates, although Max's was quite high last year.
Comerica's HR Park Factor (from ESPN) does not likely play a strong factor in contributing to the Tigers' pitchers who outperform the league average HR rates, as it has been rather close to both the median value (14th, 18th, and 18th in all of baseball over the past three seasons) and average (approximately 96% of the league average rate for the past three years). The Hardball Times 4-year home-run per outfield fly rate also has Comerica at 96% of league average. These minute differences are not enough to suggest that, for example, Verlander's consistently low HR/FB rate is due to pitching half of his games in Comerica.
These pitchers who consistently outperform the league average HR/FB rate (Verlander, Valverde, Benoit) threw approximately 27 percent of the Tiger's inning last season (nearly 40 percent if Fister and Coke are factored in). Having such a significant percentage of our innings pitched by players who are better than average at preventing fly-balls from becoming home-runs will help to mitigate some portion any expected regression.
Lastly pitchers who threw less than twenty innings for the Tigers threw a combined 127 and a third innings (Donnie Kelly was the third of an inning! Pitching Wizard!), or about 9 percent of the total team innings. They allowed 98 earned runs, or over 15 percent of the total team runs allowed. Clearly pitching depth was a huge problem last year.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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extremes look right
Tiger defense allowed the second highest BABIP against groundballs in the AL last year. But they were better against flyballs with the 3rd lowest FB BABIP. Thus, at the top and bottom in FIPRUNS-RUNS things line up as expected with Rick (high GB/FB) at -14 and Justin (low GB/FB) at +16. Max might seem like an anomaly as a flyball pitcher at -6, but his LD rate ranked 9th highest in the AL among qualified starters and his BAA on groundballs was the highest among Detroit starters.
Yeah, those two (JV and RP) seem to be intuitively positioned...
Coke and Fister seem to upset that trend, however, with Fister getting about a 50% GB rate with Detroit, and Coke being a bit more of a fly-ball pitcher. But, then again, Fister only had 70 innings with us, which may not have been enough time for his trends to stabilize. And Coke, while having a GB rate of only 42%, actually threw more ground-balls last year than fly-balls last year, a first in his career.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 29, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Glenn
Hey Glenn, if that is you from our old News Forum days. Still dealing out the very staunch, tight stats, he? Very good stuff, my friend. I hope you keep them coming, bud ….
This may have been the worst formatted fanpost yet, haha
but I cleaned it up for you and promoted it! Good article.
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 29, 2011 12:18 PM EST reply actions
Thanks!
I cut and pasted from openoffice… where it originally looked pretty alright, and it was 1 in the morning and I didn’t feel up to correcting it. shrug
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 29, 2011 12:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
did you paste it into the "paste from word" option?
I think that would have helped clean it up some. no worries.
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 29, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I did not, 'cause I was using a different word processor...
And I wasn’t sure if it would work. I’ll try that in the future.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 29, 2011 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Delmon Young
Fangraphs had an article up today on players with the worst defense in the last 10 years…DY was #8
by Wolverine119 on Dec 29, 2011 1:16 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Oof.
Delmon, well, he’s at least a good RBI guy, right? And clearly he’s a clutch hitter, as he demonstrated in the post-season.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 29, 2011 1:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Old guy skills
Minus taking walks…. If he actually does bat third…ill put the over/under @27 gidps’
by Wolverine119 on Dec 29, 2011 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Innovative
Delmon had the 3rd highest GIDP rate in the AL among batting title qualifiers and put up a sub .300 OBP for the Tigers. He’s not your textbook 3-hitter, but provides yet another example of the outside-the-box thinking that powered skipper Jim Leyland to a second-place finish in the AL manager of the year voting.
Please tell me that was sarcasm...
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 29, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
GIDP's?
Adrian Gonzalez and Miguel Cabrera ranked 1st and 2nd in GIDP’s in the AL. By those standards they should be batting 9th. Albert Pujols should be benched because he led the majors in GIDP’s.
Really?
If delmons obp was over .400 like those guys…instead of under .300…he might be forgiven
by Wolverine119 on Dec 29, 2011 4:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
He would be forgiven. Because he’d be AWESOME.
Seriously, GIDP sucks, but good hitters can get away with them. Delmon Young can’t because he’s not a good hitter.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 29, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Delmon has a career .288 batting average
It takes a pretty good hitter to do that.
His career OBP is .325
And his career SLG is .447.
Not a good hitter.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 30, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
You want to talk OBP?
Delmon’s career OBP is .321. Last season, the average Outfielder had a .322 OBP. So if Delmon Young walked 1 more time per season, he’d have a better than average OBP for an Outfielder. What is the value of a walk anyway?
Did you know that a 2 out, bases empty, walk only has about a 1 in 8 chance of contributing to a run, but a no out, bases empty, walk has about a 4 in 10 chance of adding a run? Bottom line, 2 out walks are not very productive. That’s linear weights doing the talking, not me. So when you look at OBP, you really need to look at situational OBP instead.
A perceived good OBP guy might have poor OBP’s with 0 outs, but have a great OBP with 2 outs. It’s easy to explain why. Many pitchers try to expand the strike zone with 2 outs, meaning that they’ll get more K’s and Walks. I’m not talking out of my ass here and the stats will back me up. On average, a hitter has a 7% BB & 16% K chance with no outs, but has a 9% BB & 19% K’s with 2 outs. Walks and K’s go hand in hand in those situations. So when you see decent OBP guy with a high strike out rate, you need to raise a red flag and be concerned about that player padding his OBP in 2 out situations. Scott Sizemore is one of the worst offenders of this. He actually has a .277 OBP with no outs.
Another guy that pads OBP horrifically.
Chase Headley, this past season, he had a .295 OBP with no outs, but a .426 OBP with 2 outs.
OK, lets talk wOBA
One of the huge flaws with wOBA, is that they multiply it to make it look like OBP. Another huge flaw is that it still tells you that walks have about as much value than a run producing hit. Walks do not drive in runs, and that itself makes walks at least 50% less efficient as a hit.
wOBA uses linear weights, but it is dumbed down completely, because it uses an average value for each type of play. Here are the values they use for each play: HR 1.70, 3B 1.37, 2B 1.08, 1B 0.77, NIBB 0.62. The actual linear weight for a walk in some situations is 0.13 to 0.14.
With runners on base, what would you rather have, a walk that clogs up the bases and sets up a double play or hit that drives in a couple of runs? I’d rather have the RBI’s than the walk any day of the week. A walk is never going to drive in the winning runs. You got to swing the bat and put the ball in play to win games.
I think Delmon is good in the clutch, just like he showed during the stretch run, the play-offs, and the 2010 season. I’m a results oriented person and care more about winning than anything. To get wins you need to score runs and I think Delmon Young produces. In 40 games, he scored 28 runs and had 32 RBI’s. Prorated for a full season, he’d have 112 runs scored and 128 RBI’s. I don’t care that those numbers weren’t textbook out of Tom Tango’s library.
We haven’t had good run production from a 3rd hitter ever since we got Cabrera. Everyone who has batted 3rd previously has failed, that includes Gary Sheffield and Magglio Ordonez, guys that had high OBP’s. Those OBP’s in front of Cabrera didn’t conjure up a ton of runs like they were supposed to. That’s because patience hitters get flanked in front of Cabrera.
BTW, Chase Headley, is not a good hitter. If you just look at his splits, you can see that his stats are heavily padded by 2 out situations and a high BABIP.
The actual linear weight for a walk in some situations is 0.13 to 0.14.
It is also as high as .87 when the bases aren’t loaded and higher when they are. You do understand how linear weights work right? Read this. Simplistically, it takes the amount of all the situations in the graph you listed happen and gives a value to each individual outcome. It isn’t an average so much as a mean. So yes, in certain situations a walk is not as valuable as what wOBA uses in it’s formula, but over the course of an entire season based on 4 bajillion years of data, a walk will generally equal 0.62.
How you are going to preach the use ot TangoTigers linear weight graph for run expectancy, and then dismiss wOBA (which uses the graph you are preaching) as inaccurate is truly baffling.
A walk is never going to drive in the winning runs. You got to swing the bat and put the ball in play to win games.
Twenty walkoff walks in 3 years, involving nineteen of the thirty big league teams, from 2008-2010.
I said "runs", which is plural
A walk will never drive in more than 1 run at a time.
by Keith-Allen on Dec 31, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
What's baffling me is that you think it's baffling
After you just repeated what I just said and agreed with it.
by Keith-Allen on Dec 31, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
This was in response to a comment about Delmon having a .288 batting average
No stat is the ultimate measure of total offensive production, but you can’t argue that Delmon’s lack of ability to get on base without getting base hits doesn’t hurt the team. Walks have some value, particularly when talking about a hitter in the top three spots in the order.
"King of Minutiae"
I see. I agree about no stat being the ultimate measure.
I don’t think Young is hurting the team though. It’s not like he hits like Brandon Inge or Gerald Laird.
Happy New Year to you. Even though we don’t agree on much, I’ve really enjoy the conversations we’ve had. I’m always going to try to find the good in the Tigers. Truthfully, I never liked Delmon Young before he was on the Tigers, but now he gets my free Detroit Tigers ghetto pass. I’ll defend him as long as wears that old English D, even if it’s a losing cause.
Maybe someone should write a post on Delmon Young?
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 31, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
at least it would keep the delmon young talk in one place
rather than every post at byb!
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 31, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
His OBP isn't high enough to get his own post
He’s a hijacking parasite that thrives off the good fortune of others. To reach his max potential, he needs to feed off a healthy host, like a Joe Mauer or Miguel Cabrera. That’s why he should be batting 3rd. He’d be rather useless otherwise :-)
League average
Delmon has a league average bat..he can hit..its just the whole package is flawed…hes a slow ass horrific defending corner outfielder w an average bat..that I wouldnt be suprised to see improve w some more power…id still rather have andres torres
by Wolverine119 on Dec 31, 2011 12:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
SweetLou...he found your button
by Wolverine119 on Dec 29, 2011 4:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
perhaps JL is thinking outside the box
And we’re going to have a four man rotation!
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Dec 29, 2011 7:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
DY
probably has one of the most improved UZR/150’s also. Went from 22.6 to -3.7 in 2 years. If that rate of improvement continues he’ll be +20 in a few years. :)
"A look at theoretical verses"
Poetry, on BYB?
Okay … it’s been boring. Let ’er rip.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Okay, now i'm doing this.
Expect an all-haiku review of the past season to drop sometime this weekend.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 29, 2011 6:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nothing impresses a writer more
Than his own haiku.
No one knows why this is. It just … is.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
by Singledigit on Dec 30, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
There are an incredible number of Tigers with five syllable names.
Justin Verlander, Miguel Cabrera, Al Alburquerque, Collin Balestar, Andy Oliver, Jose Valverde, Alex Avila, Viictor Martinez, Jhonny Peralta, and Brandon F’ing Inge.
I’d go so far as to guess that the Tigers have the highest Potential Team Haiku Usage Rate.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 30, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
Like this?
Justin Verlander
Dubious middle relief
Jose Valverde
by rea on Dec 30, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Yes!
Collin Balestar
Different mediocre
Middle reliever.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 31, 2011 6:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Glenn Wilson
Thank you, sir, for pointing me toward that FreeForums site. I had been feeling seriously displaced since the News shut down our Forum. Nice to see you and several friends from the old neighborhood posting right along. Thank you, my friend …..
but hoping you all stick around BYB some too!
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 29, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
The News had a good thing going, and the new forum is good
But BYB is now my main source for all things Tigers.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Dec 29, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I'm missing something
But I thought the noise in ERA came from how “earned” runs are calculated, meaning that it’s not a good baseline for comparing “actual” versus theoretical.
Yeah, I thought about that after writing this whole thing.
However, FIP and xFIP are scaled to represent ERAs, not a Runs Allowed average. Also, every pitcher would just appear to have done worse than they show above, unless they allowed no “unearned” runs.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 30, 2011 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Kurt
Oh, rest assured I will most definitely be sticking around. This is a GREAT site for Tigers fans.
Did someone say Haiku?
Bored, waiting for Tigers news
Cespedes? Maybe
The wait is killing me though.
NERD'S REVENGE
Meaningless gibberish creating formulas pigeon-holing a ballplayer’s performance. Talk about a repelling article…..I bounced off it like trying to walk through a spotless glass sliding patio door. Anybody who’s played ball above American Legion can tell you no computer formula will ever work in baseball…it’s absurd considering the number of variables. What’s “moneyball” done for Billy Beane as he trades away his kids for newer kids. Why does he still have a job at all? If I were an Oakland fan I’d lay in wait and jump him some night outside his offices for keeping the A’s in perpetual rebuilding mode. That’s AAA not MLB. As a side note, I don’t see the attraction to a 26 years old Cespedes, He’s a Marlins catch obviously since Ozzie is there, Miami is mostly latin now, and Leyland can’t habla espanol or englesia either for that matter.
Well, what can I say.
Thinking just isn’t for everybody.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Dec 31, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Funny how all the GM's are nerds now.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
Thinking outside WHAT box?
Somebody should ask DD why Raburn wasn’t required to learn how to catch as a condition for his 2 year deal. He’s a much better candidate than Kelly ever was being shorter and having a better arm and thicker skull. The fact he really can’t play any other position, while Kelly can play anywhere, made it an obvious idea. He could have been sent to play winter ball these last couple off-seasons or in his last visits to Toledo. Then “G-Money” wouldn’t be taking up bench-space as a waiting whiff as a PH. And an obviously bulked-up Santiago should have been the full-time 2nd baseman after Sizemore was dealt. Scott hit .400 at Toledo under Bull it should be remembered…..didn’t take Legendary Lloyd long to “correct” his approach at the plate did it?
Might want to check the "drink by" date on that Holiday egg nog.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
OK Joe,
but wasnt Legendary Lloyd the hitting coach during Jhonnys best year ever with the bat? Al Avila’s kid seemed to hit pretty well with Legendary Lloyd as his hitting coach too. If Sizemore’s troubles with the big club are Legendary Lloyd’s fault, doesnt he deserve some credit for all the guys who hit well? It’s not like teams are lining up to try to pry SS away from the A’s either. Some guys are just average, the end.
by MotorCityCat on Dec 30, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
IT WAS BULLSH*T
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
singledingle didn't get toxic-shock syndrome from eggnog...
Since Skimpy ran off to dance the pole the boy is back to living in a packing crate draining antifreeze through expired Wonder Bread. As to Legendary Lloyd, he also “fixed” AJax, “fixed” Raburn, “fixed” Avila until the kid tuned him out and started pulling the ball again, and had nothing to do with Peralta who knew better than to listen. And if Boesch is smart he’ll follow the same forumla…when Lloyd talks nod attentively, ignore it and go to Cabrera for help. Oh, and of course my comments aren’t popular with the electronic abacus crowd….ie those afraid the ball would hit them and it would hurt :)
My question:
How does he know all this stuff?
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
hammer...hammer...now WHERE'S that hammer? alli?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Dec 30, 2011 4:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
At least something was happening
The crickets are deafening right now.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

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