Report: Tigers Making a Strong Push for Gio Gonzalez
by Tigerdog1 on Dec 7, 2011 2:02 AM EST
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Susan Slusser, who covers the Oakland A's for the San Francisco Chronicle is reporting that the Tigers are "making a strong push" for Oakland A's lefty starting pitcher Gio Gonzalez. Slusser reported in this article that the Tigers would be willing to part with their No. 1 prospect, Jacob Turner.
I learned from multiple Detroit team sources tonight that the Tigers have strong interest in Gio Gonzalez and they probably would be willing to part with top prospect Jacob Turner, a right-handed starter, in any deal.
To land Gonzalez, of course, it will take a package of significantly more: likely one more of the club’s top three or four prospects and several other decent young players. (I can’t repeat it enough: Think Dan Haren deal.)
Gonzalez is a star young pitcher who would obviously be a big boost to the Tigers rotation. Gonzalez is a 26 year old lefty who made his first All Star appearance in 2011, finishing the season with a 16- 12 record, and an ERA of 3.16 while holding opposing batters to a .230 average in 32 starts.
Gonzalez is eligible for arbitration for the first time this winter and will not be eligible for free agency until 2016. Slusser also reported that sources close to the Tigers were unsure whether the club would be able to put together a package as good as the Yankees could put together to get a deal done. The Yankees reportedly balked at Oakland's demand for Jesus Montero plus either Dellin Betances or Manny Banuelos. The Tigers simply don't have that kind of talent in their minor league system, and if they were to match that kind of demand, they'd probably have to deal from the major league roster.
Jason Beck also reported that the Tigers were approached earlier this off season about left handed starter Wandy Rodriguez, but were unwilling to take on his full salary. Rodriguez will earn $10 million in 2012, $13 million in 2013, and there is a $13 million club option for 2014 that converts to a player option if he is traded.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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maybe....
It would take Turner and Boesch or Jackson(then sign Cespedes)? I would hate to see the later two go but its hard to pass him up, especially with him being under club control until 2016! The rotation would be crazy good and for a few years. Just one wish……DO NOT INCLUDE CASTELLANOS!
by tigerstripes_4life on Dec 7, 2011 2:12 AM EST reply actions
No Boesch or Jackson
Turner…..Crosby or Oliver & maybe 2 guys w some upside…say fields & Garcia…if thats mot enough…move on
by Wolverine119 on Dec 7, 2011 2:25 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Probably $ 4- 4.5 million
the upper end of the scale for a good starting pitcher in the first year of eligibility. A bit more than Scherzer/ Porcello, since neither of them has won 16 games nor made the All Star team. I’d guesstimate 4.25 mil.
"King of Minutiae"
Mlbtr
They had him @ 3.6 the first of four times through arb.
by Wolverine119 on Dec 7, 2011 3:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I have'nt run any comps on him, just threw those numbers out as the top of the scale for a first year eligible starting pitcher
Lesser pitchers have gotten more their first time through.
MLBTR also has Delmon at 3.6. Who would you rather have? :)
"King of Minutiae"
The Dan Haren trade...
that Slusser refers to is that Gio was traded by the Oakland Athletics with Connor Robertson to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Brett Anderson, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunningham, Dana Eveland, Carlos Gonzalez and Greg Smith. Quite a package at the time.
Slusser is also the Vice President of the Baseball Writers Association of America. She is very well respected.
"King of Minutiae"
Wow.
this is really surprising news. I’m going to be pretty adamant that I don’t want this deal to happen. Sure, Gonzalez has promise and showed signs of breaking out this past season, but he has struggled mightly with his control (his WHIP killed my fantasy squad).
For me, if we’re going to part with a package headlined by Turner/Fields, etc, we better get a better haul than this. IMO, Gonzalez’s market value has been grossly overvalued by Oakland. They’ve realized that there is a lack of SP on the market and hyped him up. He has the potential to be an ace, but I think he’s more of a 2/3 guy. You shouldn’t package your top prospects for a top/middle of the rotation arm.
In addition, I’ve always been wary of the fact that Gio’s bounced around so much.. It makes me think that teams see something in him that they don’t like.. if my memory serves me correctly, I want to say he’s bounced around between the Phillies, A’s and White Sox (on 2 occasions). Sure, he could have just been such a highly touted prospect that he was good trade bait on multiple occasions, but you would think a club would have valued his raw talent enough to hang onto him…
In my honest opinion, we’d be better off taking this package and going after a guy like Hanley Ramirez (sorry, I had to).. The Marlins probably will listen to offers for him as he is clearly disgruntled over the Reyes signing; the situation could get ugly. Gio is overvalued and the same package could catch a much bigger fish (pun intended).
And to echo tigersstripes_4life’s sentiments: don’t include Castellanos!!!!
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Okay, suppose the A's throw in that stud young third baseman they have, Scott something??
"King of Minutiae"
No..
He is talking about Scott Sizemore. I am sure he is being sarcastic. I wish the Tigers still had Sizemore though. He really wasnt given a chance. He was a rookie and going thru the growing process of the big leagues. Though bullpen help was needed and there were times David Purcey provided that and other times he seemed lost. Probably thinking about his wife and twins at home.
ISBN: 13194013
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
by tigers22 on Dec 7, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
No. I will destroy things.
Gio is being heavily over valued. I wouldn’t trade either boesch, or turner for him, let alone both. Gio is good, don’t get me wrong, but Turner will be better and no #3 starter is worth a middle of the order, lefty, impact bat like Boesch.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
+1
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 7, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Hell and no
We all seem to forget Gio lead the league in walks last year and had an era that was greatly helped by the Oakland Coliseum. His road splits weren’t awful, but they were great either. On top of that, he is just falling out of his cheap cost controlled years, while he not overly expensive, he’s still 10x’s more expensive(literally) than boesch. Gio is a legit 3rd starter and would make the tigers rotation filthy; but it still could be pretty filthy without him. He is unnecessary. And, IMO, isn’t worth a young, cheap, legit middle-of-the-order bat than can bat .280-.300, hit for power, is showing vast improvements is plate disciple, and has good speed.
I will repeat; no #3 starter in the league is worth boesch.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
Agreed
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
I could learn to like Gio
What’s not to like about a hard throwing strikeout / fly ball pitcher? He’d do just fine at Comerica Park. We’d need to get Delmon out of right field though.
4 yr window
I get it if Dom & illitch think we’ve got a solid 4 year window w cab & justin in there primes..it wouldnt bother me if they went all-in & used castellones to get headley as well…on a side note I do hope we hold onto Smyly…he may only have #3 upside..but I think there is a high % chance he realizes that vry soon…also I see Turner as a future #2.. He doesnt miss enough bats in the minors for me to think hes going to be an ace
by Wolverine119 on Dec 7, 2011 3:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I really really like Gio
but I’m still not comfortable giving up Turner, let alone the huge package of players they’d demand
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Right team, wrong pitcher think A Bailey, GG has good stuff
Red Sox has not offer much to the A’s for Bailey. I’m not sure about giving up Turner. Go for it unless A’s are asking to much.
Mark Burhle
If you figured Gio would cost around 35 mil throught his four years of arbitration..plus a package headlined by Turner…3 yrs. 39 mil for Burhle doesnt sound so bad
by Wolverine119 on Dec 7, 2011 7:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Except that Gio
Is probably better, and younger, and 3/4 the cost (4 years instead of 3). If you get Buehrle you don’t have anywhere for Turner anyways because you already have 5 starting pitchers so he doesn’t really factor into the equation…unless you use him for tradebait in which case you could get a better, younger, and cheaper guy…like Gio.
Shertzer
I’m def not sayin i’m down for givin Berhle 40 mil..however if we dd a pitcher a multi year deal…when smyly & turner are ready I would use schertzer to get a MI…i dont trust his throwing motion long term
by Wolverine119 on Dec 7, 2011 8:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
And why couldn't you do the same thing with Gio on the roster?
When Smyly is ready you can still trader Scherzer for a MI…
If, I know this is a shocking thought, a pitching prospect doesn’t meet the hype (do you need a defibrillator to recover from your heart attack at that thought?) you at least have known, young, good commodities. With Buehrle you have an older less talented pitcher for a shorter amount of time and more money…How is that better?
Look up higher
I said im down if its a turner & oliver or crosby package…im jyst not dwn for us giving up a rdiculous amont…& the burhle though line is..its not my money..if Mr. Illitch wants to spend a little extra to keep some resources.. Im down… & I think Berhle & Gonzalez were both worth about 3.5 war last year… So the gap over three years may be only a couple wins accountin for berhle decline& gonzales progression…although id put the greater injury risk on gonzales..for sure
by Wolverine119 on Dec 7, 2011 9:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was replying to this post that you made
Sorry if I didn’t look through your entire posting history to see where you have stood on this issue.
This isn’t twitter, there is no character limit. You can’t post your entire though in one post if you like.
One last thought on Burhle… Wouldn’t it be nice for once if we let our pitching prospects fully develope…they find themselves in det. As soon as its determinded they have a mlb ready fastball.. See…Verlander..miller..oliver..turner..porcello…we rush guys to a rediculous extent….Imagine if porcello had spent time developing that change-up…instead of simply relyin on that sinker soley to het nessecary outs @ the mlb level…if bonderman had developed a third pitch his shoulder might not have fallen off throwing so many sliders… Idk if we.trade for Gio..or sign Burhlere…just stop rushing our pitchers…& lets make a run here over the nxt four years while we have 2 possible HOF’s in thier prime
by Wolverine119 on Dec 7, 2011 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Do it
Gio is young, left handed, already proven, non cost-prohibitive, and would give us a solid #2-3 level starter in our rotation through the rest of Miggy and JV’s prime years. Turner is right handed, unproven and just as likely to not live up to the hype. We should be trying to win now, not in a few years. Unless they want Jackson or Boesch as well I’d do this. But then, if we sign Cespedes I suppose we do have a surplus in the outfield. Wonder if Oakland would be interested in DY?
Seriously, imagine a rotation of JV, Fister, Scherzer, Gonzalez, and Porcello. Good lord, teams should expect lose every series they play against us with that rotation.
Boesch is the only "must keep"
I say anyone (of those discussed) short of him should be put in the deal to make it happen.
jinxing ass
I'm in this boat
Boesch is the less expendable piece in this deal. Trading him and Turner for a pitcher creates an unnecessary hole, IMO. I don’t like the fact that the Tigers would be banking on landing Cespedes to play RF next season when Delmon is already a black hole of suck defensively in left. If Raburn is the Opening Day right fielder, I might go into heart failure.
I wouldnt trade Turner
He had a couple good seasons but I wouldnt trade for him. I mean Jacob Turner is supposed to be a dominate force for years to come and is only 20 years old. We all know what Justin Verlander’s 2 spot starts showed his first season both losses to the Indians. Jacob Turner will win 12-15 games this season for the Tigers if he is the 5th starter. So that said lets hope I am right. Plus Turner is one of the top prospects in all of baseball and he should be fetching a ton in return not him along with a couple other prospects for 1 guy. The Tigers do need a lefty and why not give Drew Smyly a look? He could very well be the next Randy Johnson. You never know.
Or...
Turner could just as well end up a total bust like Andrew Miller. Or to a lesser extent fail to live up to his full potential like Porcello. That’s the thing with prospects, there’s no way to know for sure whether they’ll pan out. And even if he does live up to the hype we’re realistically a couple of years away from being able to rely on him. By then our window to win with Miggy and JV may well be winding down and the rest of the teams in the division could be back on track. Right now we are the dominant team in the division and in prime position to lock-up a spot in the post season for 2-3 years. We need to take that opportunity now, not cross our fingers that a prospect will push us over the top in a couple of years.
It is a bit early to say Porello won't live up to his full potential
by rea on Dec 7, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Exaggerating
You guys are acting like I said Porcello was shit. I absolutely did not say that nor did I imply it. I just said he hasn’t been as good so far as everyone said he would be. Maybe he gets better, maybe he’s already peaked. The point is that prospects don’t always perform the way you expect them to.
Sorry
I know I and I think some other people get a little touchy when people act like forget Porcello is younger than most rookie pitchers and act like he is a finished product.
oh wow.
sadly, i must say that we should keep turner… the same as i said to keep porcello when halladay, holliday, and haren talks came up.
but… i would love GioG.
(Un)Official President of the Team Jacob Turner Fan Club
Yet Another Movie Blog
by DetroitTigersGeek on Dec 7, 2011 9:01 AM EST reply actions
A's will want Boesch and Turner so just say no, four reasons why I would trade Turner for GG
I think it is dumb to trade Turner straight up for GG for four reasons. The reasons are both pitchers have the potential of being 2 or 3 or 4 guys in the rotation, so therefore both pitcher have the same potential. You trade up or down not sideways. A’s are trying unload GG before he gets expensive. Turner will be less expensive over the next few years. Thirdly, we know Turner will potentially be a #3 in the rotation so that is worth something in the trade market. Can you image what Yanks would gives us for Turner.
Lastly, there should be a good chance of playing Texas again in the post season. Our right hand pitching matches up well against Texas so we might need Turner to help out. Texas is doing something smart and quietly picking up pitching. Mr.Ryan is a smart baseball man unfortunately.
I disagree
Turner for Gonzalez straight up is a no-brainer.
Both are cheap. The marginal cost of Gio vs. Turner for the next few seasons is a non-factor.
Gio has proved his ability at the major league level. He’s survived the adjustment period and has emerged as a solid top-of-the-rotation starter. Turner still has lumps to take. He might be good, but there will be a rocky path along the way.
The A’s wouldn’t do this straight up, nor should they. The Tigers will have to sweeten the pot with additional players. Boesch, Jackson, Porcello, or Castellanos will probably have to be part of the deal and we may need to add other prospects like Av. Garcia, Fields, Burgos, or Brantley. Like I said…Turner for Gio is an easy decision. When you add the other prospects, it clouds things up.
I wouldn’t do it. Our franchise is on the verge of developing some sustainability if we fill our holes with minor trades and free agent signings this season. A deal like this would certainly make us stronger contenders for the next 2-3 years, but would threaten sustainability after that.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
What if the DD also agreed to fill their pop machine for 3 years?
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Dec 7, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
You think GG is a stud right now
Hi has a nice arm but he does walk batters. Pitching in Oakland is a lot easier than say Fenway. Your a stats what is his FIP and WHIP?
GG is due a few million more than Turner, potential control issue
Asking price for GG is way too high. Hang onto Turner to trade later once we find out what hole needs filling as the season goes on. Starting pitching is our strength.
Timeline
I’m getting redundant, but to everyone hot on Turner, you’ve got to think about where the team will be by the time he might be as good as people think. Right now we’ve got a strong core including guys like Avila, Boesch, Fister, Scherzer, and Jackson who are cheaper than they will be in a couple of years. JV may be good for another decade but who knows? Cabrera has another 3-4 years before we can expect him to start to decline. By that time it will cost a lot more money to keep the younger players who are contributing now. What is the sense in crossing our fingers that Turner lives up to the hype when even if he does the team’s payroll will force us to part ways with other key players by that time?
And the rest of our division sucks. The White Sox are retooling their team, the Twins are likely losing a few key players and can’t count on Mauer and Morneau staying healthy, the Indians just aren’t quite there yet, and Kansas City’s strong offense isn’t enough to make up for their weak pitching. The time to win is NOW.
This is a riff on one of the classic in team building debates, but you only present one side
We don’t have the payroll to buy a contender every year so we have to decide whether too go all in, flags fly forever style, or take a less volatile path with an eye toward consistent contention. Teams like the Phillies go one way, blowing their wad on a 3-4 year window, while others like the Braves focus on developing a good mix of players so they may never have a team as dominant as the current Phils, but they have a chance to win the division almost every year . The argument that ’We should go for it because our window is now" is really self-perpetuation, If you give up top prospects like Turner or Castellanos you have little chance of having a window in the near future.
I am personally on the side of trying to build a consistent winner. The value of baseball to me is being able to watch and be interested in a full years worth of games, noting is as miserable as seasons when we are out of contention by the allstar break. Personally I would rather have a team that is in the division race, makes the playoffs every couple years and has the chance if everything goes right make a run at the world series, than a boom/bust team that fluctuates wildly between epic world series juggernaughts and sad 70 win squads. I would rather be the Twins than the Marlins.
by rif23 on Dec 7, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I suppose I was over simplifying. I didn’t mean to imply that I don’t think we should think about the future. But I feel like we’ve got enough young players and flexibility to cross that bridge when we come to it. I just don’t think you can ignore the fact that the current landscape of the division and the mix of star players we have right now is a recipe for completely dominating for the next couple of years. There may well be other Jacob Turners in a couple of years when the roster starts to change. But we might also be comparing him to Andrew Miller and groaning about how JV left for the Yankees because we couldn’t get him a ring.
Trading for Gonzalez will kill the farm system
That’s it…pure and simple. It will take a long time to recover from trading the sort of package that this deal will take. We don’t have many top-level prospects (2) and our tier-2 prospects all have lots of issues. Furthermore, the 2011 draft didn’t really any players like Turner or Castellanos that are likely to become high-level prospects. Nor did it yield many . And the new CBA makes it unlikely that Detroit will be able to secure future prospects the same way we did Turner and Castellanos (over-slotting).
The Cabrera deal killed the farm system for a while, and it was fine. We needed to do it at that time because we weren’t all that close to being good enough at the parent level. We are in a different situation now.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Cabrera deal?
How did the Cabrera deal kill the farm system? Cameron Maybin is just now showing that he might be good and the other five guys never really panned out. You think we’d be a better team if we still had those six players?
Nope...We're a better team with Cabrera
We traded a lot of prospects that were valuable at the time. Evidently, they weren’t very good ball players, but they certainly had value as prospects. On a team like Detroit (payroll in top 30 percentile), I feel the farm’s use is about 30% to promote from within and about 70% to provide trade chips.
They didn’t kill the farm in the respect that we lost a bunch of future superstars, but we did lose some very good trade chips. Maybin was the equivalent (better even in value perhaps) of Castellanos and Miller was between a Turner and Oliver, but closer to Turner.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Just to play devil's advocate
Isn’t when you made it to the ALCS the year before the time to spend the farm system to fill the last few holes? Why worry about protecting a slate of might-be-goods in AAA or AA instead of turning them into proven players who will get you over the top?
It’s also pretty clear that this organization is much better at turning prospects into starters through trades than it is in developing home-grown talent. Trading minor-leaguers for major-leaguers isn’t a management failure, when done correctly.1
Not to say that we leave the cupboard Randy Smith-level bare, but what we look like in 3-4 years is the least of my worries right now.
1 – Even if Andrew Miller, Dallas Trahern, Eulogio De La Cruz, Burke Badenhop, Cameron Maybin and Mike Rabelo could form Voltron, they wouldn’t equal Miguel Cabrera.
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
continuing devil's advocate
Your point – 6 prospects couldn’t form Miguel Cabrera – point given! Can’t argue.
Your broader point – Turning prospects into big leaguers is often good for the team getting the big leaguer – point given!
A point for consideration. Is our new package of prospects (or whatever) worth GG or someone better?
I remember being amazingly stoked for Miggy when we got him. GG wouldn’t do that for me, but I think he’s good and makes our team better today. But if we’re selling the farm (whatever that is and whatever value you ascribe to it), I just hope we get the best player we can get (obviously).
Personally, I’m not really sold on the Tigers being one player away just yet. How long is the window open? Don’t know. But right now I’d like to see if some of our multiple holes can be filled from within, and then try to do some crazy “all-in for this year” package for that last piece.
by redwingxviii on Dec 7, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I agree here
Your Gio Gonzalez line sells me. How would I feel if we had to package Turner with a few other solid players/prospect to get Gonzalez? Certainly not nearly as pumped as I was when I found out about the Cabrera trade. (And when we made that trade, I even counted Willis as a minus instead of a plus.)
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
it's kind of hard to kill a farm system already dead
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 7, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It isn't dead
But it is on life support.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 7, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
It thinks it'll go for a walk
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
by johnmoz on Dec 7, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Again, thank you
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 7, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
What farm system?????????
We have no 3b..no 2b..no leadoff no C down there. u r kidding right?
Well, you're right on one of those
I don’t think there’s a 2B in the system that I know of…at least one with a bright future. 3B and C are different stories. The organization’s 2nd best prospect is a 3B and there’s a fair about of depth at Catcher. Brantley and McCann are both guys that could develop into MLB starters. Holiday could certainly be a good backup. Did you know that there are teams below Toledo?
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Brantly as a decent starter
McCann in a gray area in the middle. Lots of good defenders: Jeff Kunkel, Bryan Holaday, hell, Patrick Leyland…
And yeah, this system sucks at developing position players (Boesch and Avila excluded). Big friggin deal. We knew that coming in.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
Exactly
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 7, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry
I rather be a Marlin fan right now..New name, new stadium, 80 degree weather, great acquistions compared to zero degrees, foot of snow on ground, 2 players(M and M boys) and they barely on field at same time nowadays. No Brainer to me.
Go ahead - you can have 'em.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Not liking this deal
I don’t think it would be a good idea to go after Gonzalez. I think he’s a good pitcher, but I feel he could be a #2 at best, where as Turner is ranked as an elite prospect. If DD is going to trade Turner, DD better get a MLB ace in return.
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
Turner and Gonzalez have about the same ceiling
I think it’s a good #2 starter.
Gonzalez is obviously a lot closer to achieving his ceiling than Turner.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
DO IT
because I’m bored
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Dec 7, 2011 10:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Well, some of us have been talking about how slow the meetings have been.
“When rosterbation’s lost it’s fun…”
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Dec 7, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
your comment was great and hilarious jim
i have no idea how that can be taken seriously, but it’s the internets
by redwingxviii on Dec 7, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
glad you enjoyed
I love this time of year, and check this site every 15 minutes to see what’s going on. And when nothing’s going on, I get bored. In addition, I just don’t like going forward with this roster — I’m expecting regression in areas where the front office is too optimistic, so I’m happy to see any interesting moves.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Dec 7, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I've a very dry sense of humor
and wanted to see what would happen if I posted that.
oops
“lost ITS fun…”
I know better than that…
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
per Lynn Henning: A's want Castellanos
Tigers aren’t trading him. Move along nothing to see here.
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
twitter
by rock n rye on Dec 7, 2011 11:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
given beane's inability to find good position player prospects
this is a very bad sign for nick’s career.
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 7, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Lets not Panic
Yes, it would be nice to have GG, but not at the asking price. We have a couple of guys who can possibly start next year that wont cost as much. Getting a SP is nice, but how about we zero in on our needs, not our wants. And hell no on getting rid of boesch. If Turner can possibly make the leap this year then we still have a very good starting rotation. We won 95 games last year without an effective left hander. And if my memory serves me right we didnt have a left handed starter on the 1984 team. Here’s a flash. How about a lead off guy, an infielder and/or relief pitching. Thats the road that needs fixing.
Gio
Turner,Crosby, Dirks, Raburn and cash considerations if necessary. DO IT!
don't think that'd get it done
they want more in that package than guys like Dirks and Raburn
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Plenty of teams are desperate for starting pitching, and the Tigers aren't one of them
Which probably means the Tigers offer for Gio won’t compete.
If the Yankees offered Montero and anyone else, the A’s would be crazy to turn it down. The A’s have a hole at 1B, Montero needs a position. Montero is controllable, and a fine hitter. What the A’s need.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Dom Brown
Might get the deal done for the Phils.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 7, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/gio-gonzalez-rumors-wednesday.html
that didnd’t go as planned..
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Oh yea
if the Yanks offer Montero, the A’s would be insane to turn that down. Montero could be an offensive monster in the middle of their lineup for the next 15 years
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Gio appears to be a very fine pitcher
but how much did he benefit from the A’s ballpark and the defense behind him?
I’m in the camp that Gio is a (really) nice to have, but not if Turner is included. Since we have little else besides him as a prospect, I wouldn’t want to do this deal.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Dec 7, 2011 12:25 PM EST reply actions
well he struck out nearly a batter per inning
for a K rate that would only trail Verlander if he were a Tiger.
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 7, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I’d do Turner for Gio straight up, or Turner+Brantly. But the A’s are asking way too much.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 7, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
He also walked 4.1 per 9 last year, far and away higher than anyone on our staff.
his K/BB ratio was lower than everyone’s except for Penny.
well, the question was about stadium and defense
Just pointing out he did a lot of work himself
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 7, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Point taken.
In that case I’d also add that if BABIP is some indication of the defense behind a pitcher, his .288 BABIP was only just a tick below average.
sure, 'tis true
his HR% and LOB% are a tad higher than norms, so there might have been some ballpark, luck, and/or good defense aiding his cause. That’s why is asked, is there another way to measure the impact? With all the walks, I wonder what his peripheral stats look like if some of those things regress.
None of this is bash Gio, as I said he appears to be a very fine pitcher and would be a nice add to anyone’s rotation. It just feels like giving up JT is a bit much to pay (but then I may be overvaluing my team’s prospect).
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Dec 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really think you can overvalue Turner right now.
I mean, short of Harper, and Trout(who will be in the majors next year), you’re pretty hardpressed to find a better prospect than Turner right now. No pitcher in the minors who is projected to be a possible #1 starter/legit #2 starter is as close to major league ready right now. Sure, there are errrr kids in the minors, but not many, and few of those are as close as turner is to ‘big league ready’ who aren’t already up with some service time.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
Seriously
Jesus Montero, Julio Teheran, and Matt Moore would like to have a word with you.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Dec 7, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
And I agree.
I left a clause in my statement saying that there are better prospects. But my point was not many. And moore is already on a 25 man roster and looks like he’s in the majors from here one out, so even further driving my point that there isnt many minor league pitchers that are a close as turner.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
Short list..
throw jurickson Profar, Shelby Miller and Manny Machado on there. That’s probably about it
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Exactly
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
So many Green comments...
wow… yes, yes we are incredibly bored.
(Un)Official President of the Team Jacob Turner Fan Club
Yet Another Movie Blog
by DetroitTigersGeek on Dec 7, 2011 12:57 PM EST reply actions
What if this non trade is the most exciting story we have out of the winter meetings?
The term “stand pat” will be forever changed to “stand Dave”.
"King of Minutiae"
That's certainly the way it's shaping up....
I will have forfeited many valuable hours of my life whilst glued to Twitter.
We can still pound that Cespedes topic for a while
That won’t be decided this week.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Leyland on MLBN
Hot Stove live right now
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Jim Leyland, manager of the Detroit Tigers, made an appearance on television
which is this newfangled contraption where you can watch moving pictures in the comfort of your own home.
To those of you still judging pitchers by ERA
Gio Gonzalez and his 1.32 WHIP last season was worst among pitchers ranked in the top 50 in ERA amongst 2011 MLB pitchers, except for Aaron Harang (1.37). As a reference, his ERA put him at 19th amongst all other pitchers.
Component ERA: 3.57, 46th in MLB
DIPS (Defense Independent ERA): 3.79, 40th in MLB
According to FanGraphs, Bill James has Gonzalez pegged for a 3.83 ERA/3.94 FIP ERA next season.
I’m not saying Gonzalez doesn’t have the ability to be a decent No. 2 starter on a good year. In fact, many of his saber-stats are trending positively over the past four years. I just think a more affordable option without giving up several key pieces, particularly when you have such a thin farm system, is perhaps the more beneficial route.
I love Gio, but
I would rather give up less for Cahill
Cmon Gio, the Cuban, the Jap SP..somebody!
3 million fans don’t walk thru the turnstiles to see the Tigers stand pat while everybody else is loading up. To not upgrade at 2b,3b and leadoff is a crock! Make a splash Tigers. We aren’t going to improve with a utility player(RaBUM) having so much respect from DD and JL and a bullpen who we were afraid to us against Texas. Can we please get a leadoff hitter who creates havoc. Very important part of offense. Killed us last year.
everyone isn't "loading up"
tell me what the Yankees have done so far this offseason
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Trade Turner and Oliver
DD, you stole Fister, signed a Gem in VMart..I know you can do it..Let us get excited like Angel and, Marlin fans. Lard and Dotel do nothing for me. Remember we built up 2 prospects in organiztion(Maybin and Miller) and STOLE Cabrera.. Do it again. Prospects are exactly that. We seen them pitch here..I see nothing spectacular about either one. Other than JV, who was really just a high draft pick..are there any other(ones we label 5 tool etc) picks on our roster that are worth anything or even still in the majors tearing it up(maybe J.J.). We are GREAT at labeling “prospects”, horrible at determining their actual skills and great at shipping them to somebody else for proven player. When is the last time the Tigers got burned by a “prospect” ..Smotlz and JJ. and J.S. was in 1987
Maybe that's why we're not trading them
DD is good at knowing when to hold ‘em and when to fold ’em. He folded on Miller and Maybin. He didn’t fold on Verlander and Porcello. Maybe our evaluation is that Turner and Castellanos would be better to contribute on the field instead of on the transactions sheet.
And Oliver doesn’t really have much value. We might as well keep him for another year and see if he can figure it out. If not, send him to the ’pen.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I have a feeling he comes up as an 8th inning power arm this year
And starts closing sometime in the future.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
Power lefty closer
Billy Wagner, minus the command.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Smoltz wasn't a prospect.
Please don’t bring up that trade if you don’t understand why it was a good trade for all parties.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
How about "don't bring up that trade"
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
O Solo Gio!
Crosby,Dirks,Raburn and Holloday. Keep Turner and Boesch. Otherwise no deal. Tired of getting “Beaned” by Oakland!
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