Middle infield, Toledo and Detroit
by momotigers on Mar 22, 2011 12:33 PM EDT
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PrintThe Tigers' recent decisions about the middle infield have given us all something to follow during these waning days of Spring Training. For that, I'm thankful. Having a team with all of their decisions made already would make for a pretty dull week while we wait, and wait, and wait for the regular season to begin.
My opinion is that Detroit needs three middle infielders, as does Toledo. Both clubs will mostly likely feature a starting SS, 2B, and a player that can serve as a backup to either position. At this point, after today's news of assignments, I think we can assume the following: Toledo's keystone combo will feature Cale Iorg and Scott Sizemore. It's possible that the organization has other plans for Sizemore, but I'm not sure what they would be. Detroit will have Jhonny Peralta at SS paired with their starting 2B, who looks to be Will Rhymes at the moment (via Beck's tweet.) That leaves us with two middle infielders, Santiago and Worth, without positions.
As some of the BYB community has commented, Santiago and Worth seem to have similar games. Both are decent or better with the glove (Worth may be stronger defensively) and won't kill you at the plate (Santiago has a longer resume, but Worth has looked similar with the bat so far). It seems like both of these guys would fit well on any MLB team as a backup middle infielder. It would be a shame for either to not have at least regular job in Toledo.
A trade is a possibility, but we would need a suitable partner and I can't fathom getting a great deal in return for either player. Shortstop is a pretty thin position organizationally and it seems silly to me to trade a decent defensive SS candidate for the likely return on a Worth or Santiago deal.
Barring trade, I'm curious how this situation will shake out. Any opinions on what we do with Worth and Santiago if we assume that SS and 2B are full at both Detroit and Toledo?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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Santiago and an obscure minor league middle infielder . . .
. . . ought to get us a first-rate starting ss, right? That’s the precedent, anyway.
Oh God...
I wish.
Santiago and Brandon Douglas for Jose Reyes!
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Mar 22, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Santiago, Iorg, Douglas, Nunez, Rhymes, Ciriaco, and Diaz for Reyes....
half a season of Reyes! (plus the two picks when he walks).
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Santiago will stay in Detroit
And Worth will be the utility guy in Toledo.
I think at this point, that is a pretty set situation. IF Santiago is going to be traded then obviously Worth will stay with the big club.
To me the most interesting things coming up in the next two years are the development of Iorg (he seems to have found a decent bat in winter ball and spring training) and the starting 2B of the future. If Iorg is even adequate with the bat this year at AAA then next year it will be interesting to see what happens with him and Peralta. With this being the last year of Guillens contract the battle between Rhymes and Sizemore will really heat up next year as well.
I am really excited to see how the infield shapes up over the next 3 years. Castellanos at 3B (if he sticks), Iorg at SS (if he ever learns to hit), Sizemore at 2B (if he ever hits in the majors) and Miggy to anchor them all at 1B.
The comments lately on Danny Worth
If what we are reading lately from Leyland is true, it seems a shame to have Worth without a regular job at Toledo. I’m sure that playing UT on the infield can result in a lot of AB’s, but an emerging bat with a solid glove seems like a waste in this capacity.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Eh, I don't know
You could have him start at 3B to get at bats there and then roam from there. Course, Audy Ciriaco blocks him there too…
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Mar 22, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
until somebody on the left side of the infield in the minors
actually starts to make some contact, ain’t nobody blocking nobody, they’ll have to go out of organization.
by Kurt Mensching on Mar 22, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed...
I think they view Ciriaco as filler. He won’t block anybody with a serious chance at the big leagues. Sizemore, Iorg, and Worth can more or less get full time at bats at Toledo.
He's still on the 40 man
The Tigers like him for some reason…
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Mar 22, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't read too much into those Leyland comments.
It’s spring training, everybody gets talked about like they’re the best ever. No one in the Tigers organization whose job it is to know these things (e.g. not Leyland) believes that Worth will ever get better as a hitter. Leyland only has a very limited view of Worth’s abilities.
That's a very confident statement
Are you an insider?
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I just don't know where the upside would come from.
He’s a skinny guy, never had any power in the minors, he’s not a good contact hitter like Rhymes, doesn’t walk, career average of .251, hard to see what tool he’s going to build on. If you look at the way they’ve moved him around the minors, he’s been moved up to levels to fill spots midseason, shuttled between the majors and the minors, that’s generally not how they treat the major offensive prospects that have potential to start. Scouting types generally talk about Worth having no offensive potential also, and considering how much the Tigers love their tools, I don’t think the organization would have a different opinion.
I wasn’t trying to disparage Leyland. He’s not a minor league talent scout, it’s really not his job to know what Danny Worth is about. His only exposure to the guy is 40 games at the major league level last season and then this year in spring training. Leyland’s watching him in ST this year and Worth is playing really well, so naturally he’s going to be impressed and say so. But at the same time, everyone looks good when they’re hitting .320, and if he isn’t on the major league roster, the minor league crew isn’t going to change the way they handle Worth just because he impressed Leyland in the spring.
Now, I have heard that Ciriaco is going to repeat AA and shift back over to SS, and if that happens, Worth will get lots of playing time at 3rd for sure.
...
I think that Worth would at least be able to split time at SS with Iorg in AAA. Along with both Worth and Iorg getting time at 2B and 3B as replacements for Sizemore or Ciriaco. If they do trade someone in the middle infield they would definitely need another SS in return, just for the sake of depth. My guess is that Worth goes to AAA unless Santiago gets traded.
Iorg isn't doing anything but playing SS everyday.
He won’t be splitting time or playing any other positions or nothing like that.
Sizemore
Kind of like how last year Sizemore was going to play 2B, wait I’m pretty sure after he got moved down he played 2B and 3B. I don’t think they have any problem with moving people around in Toledo.
...
Iorg won’t be exempt because 2 years ago everyone thought he would amount to something.
He'll be exempt because the Tigers still think he'll amount to something.
They didn’t start moving Sizemore around until after he got his shot, faltered, got injured, and it forced them to consider getting creative. Iorg isn’t at that point.
Not a terribly good comparison
Sizemore is a bat-first, glove-second sort of player. Iorg is the reverse. When you have a bat-first sort of player like Sizemore, organizations are willing to play with their position a bit in hopes that their defensive skills will fit better somewhere else or that the organization will have more “room” for them somewhere else. There’s not really any reason to move a glove-first guy from a demanding defensive position that’s thin throughout the organization.
I think the only reason Iorg would get less playing time is if they give up on him during this season.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Yup.
Iorg hit really well in the AFL and in ST, and they put him on the 40 man. If they’re ever going to give up on him, it’s not going to be this season.
I agree
There was a little bit of leeway with Iorg because he took so much time off. At his stage of development, to me, that would have put a huge delay in his batting. This is, probably, the year where he has to make major strides at the plate if he is going to remain on the Tigers radar.
It's very simple.
Kelly is the problem decision. Santiago/Worth replaces Kelly with Rhymes at 2B. With Ordonez on DL, Dirks gets a shot along with Boesch/Wells. Inge/Worth/Rhymes when playing at the same time is the best defensive IF in the majors with enough hitting. Peralta will play more, but it’s a defensive thought that might turn far more offensive in time. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SLIGHTEST CHANCE OF A DL to give a test to a budding star. Wilk/Villarreal get a chance in a Zumaya DL. DD, you’ve done great so far.
by StephenGrosberg on Mar 23, 2011 9:06 AM EDT reply actions
With the emergence of all of
our relief pitching prospects, I have to think that we could bundle up a package like..
Strieby, Sizemore, 2/3 late/middle relief prospects and get a pretty solid starter at the deadline..no?
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
The most likely deal for a starting pitcher (if needed)
probably involves taking on some salary, maybe a pending free agent. The more salary eaten, the lower cost in talent.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
You forgot Carlos Guillen
Once he’s back from the DL (and until he returns there) Rhymes might also go down to Toledo. In such a scenario everybody (Rhymes, Sizemore, Worth) is back in square 1 with equal chances for promotion. That will be some fight to watch in Toledo.
On the other hand if only one of Boesch-Dirks-Wells remains in Detroit, there may be another roster spot for a middle infielder.
P.S. @David. Coke’s quote is awesome. Is he that funny or just insane?
Good point.
Perhaps a moot point. I don’t see Carlos playing much this year. Even if he comes back healthy, I think there’s a good chance that he only plays about half time because Rhymes has been respectable and our offense isn’t in dire need of Los bat.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
In Toledo i see it this way.
Sizemore will play second everyday,Iorg will plat short and Worth will play third.It wouldn’t make sense to trade any of these guy there value is too low right now.The Tigers will need a shortstop and third basemen soon,so they will give Iorg and Worth every opertunity to show what they can do.
Finally, someone else makes sense.As Worth hits, he will prove to be a most valuable player. I'd rather have him right now than Kelly.
Check the comparison as the DL presents opportunities. Rhymes/Worth is my choice over Rhymes/Kelly. Wait till Dirks challenges Ordonez. I don’t really care if Guillen comes back. What if Holiday returns to his former hitting form? What if Furbush/Oliver/Wilk prove to be the real thing? The DL will prove to be opportunity. DD, don’t pay any attention to the fans who want non Tiger players
by StephenGrosberg on Mar 27, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
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