Tigers finish weekend on a weak note
by Kurt Mensching on Apr 17, 2011 7:23 PM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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KEY STAT
0-for-0: Tigers got no runners in scoring position today
KEY PLAY
Casper Wells hit a home run off Trevor Cahill. This was the first earned run the Tigers scored off an A's starter
KEY THOUGHTS
The Tigers scored just seven runs in four games when you remove the extra-innings explosion Friday. They scored three runs total Saturday and Sunday.
You want to play .500 on the road and better at home. Do that and there's a good chance to be a playoff team. The Tigers went .500 in Oakland. Yet after winning the first two games of the series, losing the last two leaves a bad taste in the mouth. It feels like a real opportunity missed.
Of course opportunity missed has been the story of this series, hasn't it? The Tigers were 0-for-10 with runners in scoring position Saturday; 1-for-8 on Thursday. (3-for-6 Friday if you're keeping track). Of course, in the series finale the team just totally didn't get any to second base. So, uhm, wow.
You can look at Brad Penny -- whose ERA is up to 8.44 -- and see a problem. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. But both losses this weekend have to be placed on the lineup rather than the pitching staff. Still you have to wonder when Penny will find the plate better. He's up to 12 walks in four starts. Twice -- including today's -- he walked four. Once three. If you're looking for a bright point, however, he allowed his fewest hits (4) and had his most strikeouts (5) in a game this year.
Anyway, blech. Better do better in Seattle.
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Watching this offense is sad.
Its time to make some moves and shake things up some.Send Jackson and Rymes to Toledo for a few weeks.Bring up Sizemore and let Wells play center.Fire the hitting coach.Its been the same thing the last few years,can’t hit with runners in scoring postion or can’t hit at all.
Tiger's offence
Having watched a couple of games where Kelly batted 6th and led off an inning. The 1st time, I think he was followed by Avila. Inge, Santiago, Jackson, Rhymes. That is 6 below average hitters in a row (5 maybe – Avila is the best of this group) No team featuring this lineup for once or twice a week can contend for a division title. There are only 2 legitimate hitters in the everyday lineup – names not needed. Ordonez may help but not a certainty. Peralta is a decent hitter who should play 3B all the time except when Inge is used as a defensive replacement. Worth could come up to play SS and BThomas or Gonzalez sent down. I would like to see what Wells can do if given say 10 starts in a row. Sizemore should be given a chance now
Adrian Beltre
would’ve been a better use of the money they spent on Inge and Maggs.
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
watching penny today
yes he walked a few, but I would love to see the pitch locations for those at-bats. the umps were squeezing him heavily most of the night, which leads to walks if you’re painting the edges of the plate. I think he was a lot better than the line indicated.
I Like Pie
I'd agree
Penny was getting screwed from the first pitch of the day.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Apr 17, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely getting squeezed
but on the HBP or the two BB’s in his three run inning, he clearly missed the strike zone when he had to throw a strike. A’s got 3 runs that inning without exactly killing the ball.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Don't be like Hawk.
Come on, blaming the umps is what other teams fans and announcers do
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Except a consistenly small or bad strike zone has an impact.
Penny was getting a bad strike zone and, thus, more opportunities and better counts for Oakland. Conversely, a wide strike zone makes it harder on the hitters.
Free Scott Sizemore*!
*with purchase of a Scott Sizemore of equal or lesser value.
A strike zone the size of Texas wouldn't have helped Penny today
Penny walked the lead off guy in the 1st (happens, first batter, adjusting to the zone)
then Penny didn’t walk anyone til the lead off guy in the 4th.
and then Penny didn’t walk anyone til AFTER he beans DeJesus with a pitch with 2 outs in the 5th.
Penny then walks the next 2 batters—very badly and obviously, weren’t even close. Both walks included balls in the dirt early in the count/with no strikes. Wasn’t like Penny was trying to waste em and get the hitters to go fishing. He couldn’t find the strike zone no matter how big it was.
A’s pitcher had the same zone (unless yer Hawk Harrelson, then it’s a gol-durnt con-speer-acy!) and he didn’t walk a single batter.
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The A's pitcher had a benefit: Tigers swinging at everything.
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11 strikeouts by the Tigers today
yikes. And Inge not even in the lineup!
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
The count affects pitch choice
You can’t look just at the BB instances because Penny probably pitches differently in an 0-2 count than say, 3-1.
I agree though, that a “better” strike zone for Penny wouldn’t have affected the outcome of this game too much.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Thats a helluva thought
Jackson and Rymes to Toledo let Wells and Sizemore try it for a while it would probably do AJ a world of good right now. Never happen JL would play Kelly not Wells and waste a good oportunity.
Not a good game, but it could be worse
If we take 2 of 3 from Seattle, I’d consider 4-3 a successful road trip. The A’s starting pitching has been awesome so far this year, I think we were lucky to split.
4-3 would be a very successful west coast trip
However we are seeing the same trends we have seen the past few years with JL as manager. Runners not scoring from 3rd with less then 2 outs – I really feel it comes from the lack of urgency JL sets for his team, and Lloyd being the worst hitting coach in the MLB.
by Collins_2285 on Apr 17, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Fast fact
The Tigers are 1/2 game behind the Black Sox and 1.5 games ahead of the Twinkies. The other two teams won’t matter this season.
Things are tough all over.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Masterson (3-0, 1.33, 0.93 WHIP) and Tomlin (3-0, 2.75, 0.92)
Carmona had his first good start of the season. And this week they are bringing up Gomez, who easily beat the Tigers last season and is off to a great start in Columbus, recently shutting out the Mud Hens.
Offense, Tribe has 7 hitters with .800+ OPS, Tigers have 3. Tribe have 2 hitters posting sub .600 OPS, Tigers have 5.
And that’s with Choo scuffling at the plate to start the season.
Defense: the Indians rank 4th in the majors and 2nd only to the Red Sox in the AL.
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm... 16 games. Everything that has happened will hold up.
Yep, whole season is going to play out like this, for sure!
Free Scott Sizemore*!
*with purchase of a Scott Sizemore of equal or lesser value.
maybe, maybe not
But it’s not like the Indians are riding one aspect of the game or a hot hand here or there.
Heck, they just got Grady Sizemore back today. It’s not like they don’t have players with track records of performing at this level.
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Sizemore hasn't been at that level for awhile.
He’s also a chronic injury risk.
Free Scott Sizemore*!
*with purchase of a Scott Sizemore of equal or lesser value.
No need to play .700+ ball all season
Cleveland is 11-4 right now? They have 13 games vs AL Central teams over the next 2 weeks. 7 vs KC, 3 ea vs Twins and Tigers.
They stay hot and go 9-4 and have a 20-8 record on May 2nd, that leaves 134 games. They can slump back to .500 for the rest of the season and still post 87 wIns—which could well be a enough to take the AL Central.
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
That's many ifs and dependant on other teams staying bad.
Playing .500 ball the rest of the season is a tall order. How about you calm down and wait until June to throw in the towel?
Free Scott Sizemore*!
*with purchase of a Scott Sizemore of equal or lesser value.
Tigers oughta know what they have in these guys
They really need til June to know this Tigers team? It’s the same core group of players and managers they’ve been running out there unsuccessfully for several seasons now.
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You've missed the point entirely.
This isn’t about knowing what you have (they know) it is about length of time and performance showing up. It hasn’t even been a full month. This is not how the entire season is going to play out.
Free Scott Sizemore*!
*with purchase of a Scott Sizemore of equal or lesser value.
to be fair
two of our bats were on the bench: Maggs and V-Mart. I should have mentioned that in the recap.
by Kurt Mensching on Apr 17, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Leyland played one of his patented “Sunday lineups” again today. Inge was also on the bench. Jackson and Rhymes are off to slow starts. The only real hitters in there today were Raburn, Boesch, Cabrera and Wells (arguably, but he did homer).
by Rob Rogacki on Apr 17, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I like to call this the "punt" lineup
I hate it, but other managers do it as well. Our punt team is often playing against another punt team.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I wouldn't say anyone is missing Maggs .517 OPS in the lineup
And per his career numbers, V-Mart can’t hit very well in Comerica (.555 OPS). but V-Mart’s hitting around .750 OPS on the road. So that’s something.
by downinthezone on Apr 18, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
All in all, Penny's start wasn't too bad
I liked the nine straight he retired, but wasn’t crazy about how he couldn’t put hitters away the second time through the lineup. But, if I may defend Mr. Penny again, it’s not like they were creaming the ball — it was more like, death by a thousand papercuts.
Ugly and predictable.
Before I knew V-mart was out I wasn’t confident. Without V-mart you just knew Cahill was going to dominate. Disappointing they didn’t win yesterday, that was a good matchup.
We could really miss a healthy Magglio and Guillen right about now. Let’s hope Victor doesn’t have a nagging injury too.
Sizemore has to be feeling like his time is approaching….
Penny is pitching like a #5 starter
The ERA is inflated because of his first start, but he really hasn’t been much worse than we should expect from a #5. All in all, the staff is encouraging lately.
This offense was just awful for 4 games and we split, so that’s a plus. Our pre-season #3 hitter has been injured or ineffective and our #5 hitter has not found his stride yet either. AJax has struggled as well. The only players you could say have “overachieved” so far would probably be Boesch and Avila. Neither has done so significantly, so I’d say our offense will improve without major shakeups. I would, however, drop Jackson to #9 until we see him coming around.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
that is my feeling on Penny as well
Number five starters aren’t supposed to pitch like aces – they are supposed to give innings and a reasonable chance to win against a lot of teams, and that’s all. He has so far been fine.
The offense has betrayed him.
Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
He hasn't helped himself but, then again, he's received no help.
Free Scott Sizemore*!
*with purchase of a Scott Sizemore of equal or lesser value.
I do agree
with dropping Jackson to the 9 hole and help take some pressure off him and It will help flip the lineup over. No reason to send him to triple A – he is our best defender and the game is not to fast for him, he is just in a slump.
by Collins_2285 on Apr 18, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Unless, of course, you can put Wells in CF
It certainly too early to “give up” on Jackson. However, if the rest of our lineup isn’t going to produce very well, we many need to consider getting Wells a few more starts in CF.
If even most of our guys were hitting right now, I’d say you can stick with the offensive suckhole that Jackson has been in the name of defense and player development. With so many struggling lately, it might be nice to get Wells bat in the lineup.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
If Penny was just a No. 5 level starter when healthy
then he’s less than that, given his health risk. I don’t think that’s what the Tigers were looking for. They wanted a guy that, when healthy, was a pretty decent mid rotation guy. They already had two No. 5 types in Armando and Coke. I always maintained that penciling in Coke as a No. 4 and then proclaiming “we’re happy with the top four” was foolish. Hopefully, he works out better than that.
Penny did himself in today with the one bad inning. He was able to escape harm otherwise, and got no run support.
The top of the order is a complete debacle at the moment.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
yep.
what are we at now, 15 games? 16? Yeah, lets send everybody down to Toledo. That’ll fix everything because a little over a dozen games is such an incredibly significant proportion of a 162 game season.
Everyone is saying "it's only been 16 games"
Sure, but you’re delusional if you say we haven’t been seeing this same stuff out of Leyland’s boys for years now. We made a half-decent pitcher look like Walter Johnson, we struck out too much, we had no kind of timely hitting. In that respect, the “sample size” is quite large.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill
other than Bruce Chen
Who is a terrible pitcher the Tigers have lost to? Wasn’t winning 3 of the past 7 games in 9th or later due to timely hitting?
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on Apr 18, 2011 11:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"half-decent" (what I said) =/= "terrible"
You can define “timely hitting” in many ways. I define it as getting runs home when men are on base, ideally earlier than the 9th or later. I’ve seen an awful lot of soft outs with 2 down and a man on third.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill
This weekend
Was the first chance I had to sit down and extensively watch the Tigers given most of their games up to this point were in the afternoon. The one thing I came away with was how weak the top of their lineup is. Jackson/Rhymes are killing them right now. Do we know if Guillen is coming back? They need his bat in the lineup. Short term I guess they could go get Sizemore and see if he could provide a spark. Boesch has improved, but I don’t think we want him batting third either. Still frustrated with Leyland’s lineups; we’re struggling enough to score runs, so he can’t keep sitting guys like Avila who is swinging the bat decently. Oh, and I like the look of Al Albequerque!
18 games is 1/9th of a season
If the Tigers win the next two they will be at .500 playing 2/3rds of their games on the road, and 6 games against Texas and the Yankees. Please tell me why we shouldn’t be happy with this.
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on Apr 18, 2011 11:00 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Because they might lose their next two
But I’m betting on at least one win.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
because ...
i’m sure there’s a good forrest gump quote. somene go find one.
by Kurt Mensching on Apr 18, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
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