Tigers to shake up pitching with additions of Furbush, Oliver
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 3:21 PM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
Email
Print
Update 3:20
The exact timing is a bit unsure, but we've learned the Tigers appear to be set to shake things up a bit in the rotation and bullpen with a couple of moves they'll be making during the next week or so. Left-handed starter Charlie Furbush, who allowed two runs in six innings Tuesday while striking out eight, will be brought up to Detroit to join the Tigers' bullpen. Left-handed starter Andy Oliver, who is on schedule to to pitch for Toledo Thursday, will join the Tigers rotation at some point soon, too. To make room, Phil Coke, tonight's scheduled starter in Boston, will be sent to shore up the bullpen.
Obviously last year Oliver struggled a bit in his first experience in the major leagues, finishing with an ERA of 7.36 in 22 innings, but that was also just his first year of pro ball. This year Oliver has a 2.89 ERA with the Mud Hens. This season he has struck out batters in 24.4% of plate appearances and walked them in 9.7%. His walks+hits per inning pitched (WHIP) is 1.26.
Furbush's stats headed into Tuesday: 2.90 ERA with 34.4% K/PA and 4.4% BB/PA. His WHIP was 0.893.
Corresponding moves will need to be made. I'm not sure what those are.
Speculation: Ryan Perry has not performed well this season, and he's sporting an ERA of 9. You could do worse than option him to Toledo. Or maybe Joaquin Benoit actually is injured. A left-handed reliever will have to be removed from the active roster as well or the bullpen will be flooded in them. It should be Brad Thomas, who just isn't getting the outs and is performing almost purely in a mop-up role because of that. But Daniel Schlereth hasn't pitched in a week either and seems to be a possibility for going down and up despite having a decent start to his season.
To me, it would make the most sense to skip Coke's start tonight, move him directly to the eighth inning, and call up Oliver before tomorrow's game. But I don't know that the Tigers are thinking the same way.
In any case, this might explain why Jim Leyland did not want to share his plans for the bullpen with the media yesterday.
Update: For those worried, Jacob Turner will stay in Double-A Erie. Chris Oxspring appears to have been released and has an opportunity in Taiwan if he wants it.
167 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Why would they be bringing up both Oliver and Furbush to pitch in the rotation?
I’m hoping I just misread and one of them will be replacing Brad Thomas.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:07 AM EDT reply actions
sorry I typed the wrong word
Furbush to the bullpen
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I was about to ask the same thing
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia
Haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
by SabreRoseTiger on May 18, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Makes more sense
Thomas is gone then, the other move is a little more difficult to figure out, my guess would be that Benoit goes on the DL with anxiety issues or something creative like that.
I wouldn't be opposed to them optioning Perry to Toledo to get work in.
He hasn’t pitched that much this season, what with his eye infection and the long layoff post-DL.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't disagree
I just think the Tigers will try to get weakest common denominator off the 25 man, obviously Thomas is first to go, but isn’t Benoit the next in line, at least right now?
Well, not Benoit
unless he’s going to the DL somehow. They have too much invested in Benoit to write him off this soon.
Remember Dontrelle?
I don’t think they’ll write him off by any means, but it looks like Benoit can’t handle being on the mound, that is about the only thing we ever saw wrong with dontrelle. I’m just saying we’ve seen weirder things than this.
So you're saying they'll just fabricate a diagnosis to get rid of Benoit?
I’m not convinced they did that with Dontrelle.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Why does it have to be Fabricated?
It may be a true concern, especially if he is not injured and it’s not mechanical, the’ll give him a couple of weeks off, having him go throw a rehab session in an attempt to get the real Benoit back, I don’t think they want to get rid of him, they just want what they thought they had signed during the offseason.
It seems like location is his biggest problem.
That could certainly be mechanical.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it's more likely someone Perry (possibly Villarreal?) goes down to AAA.
Especially if there’s no injury to Benoit.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Being well-paid means one can't have anxiety?
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
And that has to do with anxiety how?
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Idk, see Caruss's reply above....
You sign a big league contract, you expect big league results…
Signing a MLB contract
also doesn’t exempt you from being human
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This kind of thinking is ignorant and offensive (though I'm not offended, just rolling my eyes).
You do expect results but anxiety and mental disorders happy to anyone regardless of wealth, social standing, gender, race, religion and any other categorization. To think otherwise is showing your ignorance on the subject.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
He has 2 blown saves this year
I just throw stuff
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Yay!
Goodbye, Brad.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
That means the Mud Hens will need to find two starters somewhere
And Thad Weber hasn’t exactly impressed, so you could make the argument that they need three starters.
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia
Haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
Ugh
There’s not much down in AA either. Maybe Turner goes up.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
But I’d be surprised. I’d look for something more like Gagnier and then Enrique Gonzalez moving back to a starter’s role.
by mattintoledo on May 18, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It's the Tigers
Your argument makes sense. But it’s the Tigers.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Oxspring has been spot-starting also
Not well, but he’s been in there.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Oxspring is on his way out, though. Oliveros replaced him
They might have to make a trade or sign someone to replenish the depth.
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia
Haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
by SabreRoseTiger on May 18, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Zach Simons went to Erie when Olivaros was called up
but it’s reported that Oxspring is weighing an offer to play overseas- I think Japan.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I really like the idea of bringing up Oliver to start
But I don’t like putting furbush in the pen—-that kid is supposed to be a fantastic starter and I would really like to see him keep getting time on the mound for devolpment.
I do feel really bad for Phil Coke, though…he really wasn’t given enought time to say he had a fair shot at starting and hope he doesn’t feel like this is a demotion. He was moved out of pure necessity. He is needed much more in the pen though and hope he just runs with it and owns as the 7th or 8th inning guy.
I feel for Coke a little too, as the resident Phil Coke apologist in the Tigers blogosphere.
I still think he’s more valuable to the Tigers in the rotation, but if Oliver is undeniably awesome I’ll get over it.
I think Coke did what was asked of him and held his own, though. He wasn’t as horrible as his detractors would have you believe.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
His stats have been a bit misleading
and I totally agree—-Coke’s work as a shutdown reliever far outweighs his value as a leftystarter with all these kids ready to move up
I like the timing too—-if something here doesn’t stick to the wall then they are addressing the issue well before the trade deadline so if an ugly snake keeps rearing his head, DD will have ample time to find another option
I think some people were overstating Coke's "horribleness" because they wanted him in the bullpen.
When you look at his peripherals, at worst, he was league average.
I guess if Oliver struggles you can always move Coke back to the rotation, too.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Coke was league average… which is all you can ask for out of a 4th starter. I thought he did well. But I also think this team needs him locking down the late innings more than it needs him as a 4th starter. We’ve got some good young arms to plug into the rotation.
I’m excited to see what sticks with all these moves.
Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Fight!
by Brand New Hero on May 18, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think the decision has more to do with them needing a bullpen arm with setup experience than anything "bad" that Coke did in the rotation
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia
Haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
by SabreRoseTiger on May 18, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Coke did okay pitching out of the rotation, and he’d be a good long-man/multi-inning setup guy.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Coke wasn't bad in the rotation.
But he is better used in the bullpen with the bullpen troubles. He can also fill in as an emergency starter. I love Phil Coke. I really like the returns from the Granderson-Jackson deal.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Total WAR in that deal
based on 2010/2011 numbers (keeping in mind that Jackson isn’t on Arizona, but just for arguments sake):
Arizona: 9.1 WAR
New York: 5.8 WAR
Detroit: 9.7 WAR
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You should replace Jackson's WAR for what Arizona received in return.
I’ll take Max over Jackson, even with concerns over his possibility of injury.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
I was thinking about going even further
and doing a Net WAR based on what each team gave and received. Also, what did Arizona get for Jackson?
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Daniel Hudson
Fantastic young pitcher with #2-#3 upside under team control for six years.
Man I love Kenny Williams sometimes.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Total Net WAR
since that trade was made, factoring what Arizona got in the 2nd deal (Hudson-Jackson) as well:
Arizona: 2.5 WAR
Detroit: -1.1 WAR
New York: -4 WAR
Caveats of course apply. Granderson’s level of play over Austin this year is where most of the Tigers negative value come from. Also, Scherzer has not yet completely out done Edwin. I still think New York gave up way way too much just for one good player in return.
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
David Holmberg (minors) and Daniel Hudson.
Also a factor is the salary relief, which was IMO the primary motivating factor in DD making the trade. He could not even replace the departing free agents in the bullpen, and the 2 spot in the order without clearing some payroll first. He then went and signed Valverde and Damon. #followthemoney
AZ also got some salary relief when their new GM traded Edwin to Chicago for Hudson.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Normally I'd be opposed to putting Coke back in the 'pen, but Oliver and Furbush having good seasons makes it easier.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I see why you don't want Furbush in the pen . . .
. . . but really I don’t see how he has a future in Detroit in the rotation, unless something awful happens to Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello, Oliver or Turner, not to mention Penny.
Showcase?
If Furbush shows something in the pen, this is a good spot to showcase him for other teams, increase his value, because your right he does not have a real shot for the future of this rotation, why not use him as a chip to get something we need (3B help???)
It's a possibility.
Oliver would bring in more but they probably won’t trade him.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Red Sox Triple A team, I think
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia
Haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
by SabreRoseTiger on May 18, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
There isn't a Miguel Cabrera-quality player on the market
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia
Haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
by SabreRoseTiger on May 18, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I suppose if they were going to move Oliver it would have been last season for Dan Haren
and they wouldn’t do it, so I doubt he goes anywhere. Furbush either.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
He was on the market and there were teams interested (especially since Florida didn't want to pay his salary).
Though, if I remember right, Anaheim was the front runner. Then Detroit swooped in from out on nowhere and traded what most experts felt was the farm for him.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
This
I remember freaking in my freshman year dorm and bragging to the Texas Rangers fan living down the hall that the Tigers would win the series before the Rangers even made it to the playoffs. Oops.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If I recall correctly
The front-runners were the Yankees, Angels, and White Sox.
LAA would’ve had Miguel if they would’ve been willing to give up Brandon Wood. Whoops.
by ozymandius1024 on May 18, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I know we'd all love to bring someone in at 3B.
But does that person even exist? Is he even out there? 3B is a pretty tough position to trade for. I’m not saying he doesn’t exist, I just haven’t looked and haven’t heard any speculation and am curious for thoughts.
Aramis Ramirez, David Wright
I don’t think the Tigers will go after either one very hard, but both play 3B for crappy teams and have contract situations that make them somewhat tradeable. (Aramis’ contract is an interesting one…14M this year and a 16M option next year that I believe kicks in if he is traded.)
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Moving peralta to third and grabbing a SS is a better idea
by Siggzilla on May 18, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who though?
SS are expensive.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Jhonny is even worse at 3B than he is at SS
Besides, Inge is as good offensively as Peralta, and better when defense is considered. That is, unless you want to disregard years of performance and only look at 40 games.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
It is absolutely accurate
Peralta, 2010: .249 .311 .392 .703
Inge, 2010: .247 .321 .397 .718
Peralta, 2010 with Detroit only: .253 .314 .396 .710
They are very close, but Inge has the edge. Certainly when defense is in the picture, Inge is the better player. Unless you get hung up on 40 games.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
certainly better than Jhonny
not even close
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Inge's defense at 3rd
albeit in a small sample, has not been very good at all. Maybe being a 34 year old with two bum knees caught up to him? just maaaaaaaybe?
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Has there been any news on Inge playing differently in the field to compensate for Peralta's lack of range?
Because it seems like there are a lot of shots down the 3rd base line that Brandon would usually have, but just barely hasn’t been able to get to. (it’s entirely possible that he’s just declining with age though)
by ozymandius1024 on May 18, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
There was speculation that Inge's good range would compensate for Peralta's lack of range
I certainly hope that Inge is not “cheating” away from the line, preventing more singles from going through but allowing more doubles to get down the line. Inge does not cover the line as well as he used to, for whatever reason, IMO.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Peralta
has a career wOBA of .327 and a wRC+ of 99 (meaning he’s MLB average at creating runs). Inge’s career totals are .303 and 82 (meaning he’s 18 percent worse than an average MLB player at creating runs).
Also, Peralta has a career UZR/150 rating of -3 runs at 3rd and -5 runs at SS. He’s not worse at 3rd than he is at SS.
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Problem with that is that Jhonny is not up to par with his career stats
George Kell had great career stats. Not relevant to today’s discussion.
and the limited amount of time that he spent at 3B is insufficient to draw conclusions using UZR, but fangraphs shows Peralta with a minus 6.1 UZR/ 150 at 3B, and a -1.2 at SS LINK for 2010.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Yeah I agree that
the amount of time he has spent at 3b in his career is enough evidence to draw any conclusion. So how did you manage to conclude he is worse at 3rd when the very limited data we have actually suggests he’s probably about equivalent at both positions?
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Simply from what I saw, balls flying down the line were a disaster there.
That, and his UZR and RZR in the limited information that we do have. Could be that, over time, he’d improve at the position, but I think the lack of range isn’t something that would tend to improve.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
You are really wrong here
Jhonny Peralta is about to turn 29. He is in the prime of his career.
Brandon Inge is 34, a former catcher with TWO bad knees, and yet you think Peralta is the one who can’t hit to his career line and Inge will come back to his?
I just feel that this is a really bad opinion.
Peralta, contrary to what we've seen this season, isn't a world beater offensively
The reason his offense is palatable usually is because he usually plays SS, and most SS (especially in the AL) are jokes with the bat. You move Jhonny to 3rd, his defense gets even worse, and the bat looks even worse because he doesn’t have that sweet positional advantage.
That, and it’s a real bitch finding a SS who isn’t terrible on the market for a price that’s not going to gouge your organization through prospects or with a ton of cash (I’ll give major kudos to DD in getting Jhonny for the price he did, even if Soto does look great right now).
by ozymandius1024 on May 18, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd have gone one year with both Peralta and Inge
and look for an upgrade at the deadline or in the off season. But those were two of many positions where DD chose to stand pat. It’s not like there were many alternatives this past winter.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Penny has only got 1 more year unles they decide to re sign him
But i kind of agree with you….But I’m speculating that they are bringing both up, not just for help, but to showcase one of them..
With turner being untouchable, one of these two could be a major chip in a trade and with 20 million falling off the books at the end if the year with mags and Carlos, I wouldn’t be surpirised if DD goes for an elite at the trade deadline like a Reyes(or Hanley ramirez in my wettest of dreams) to lockdown the infield.
Meh
Furbush isn’t a fantastic starter long-term… he’s a fourth starter.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Lets face it
You could be a #2 on the Mets.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a hell of a knuckleball.
And a sweet 50 MPH fast ball!
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
^^What he said
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
This should improve our team
The bullpen needed to be upgraded and Coke + Furbush for Thomas and whoever will be an improvement.
Will Furbush be the long reliever now? I wish he could continue to get starts at AAA as he’s really improved over the last couple years, but it makes sense to bring him up to bolster the bullpen.
Recalls
They both just pitched, so it seems foolish to consider recalling either, especially with the recent rainouts. Plus neither has pitched relief before, so to ask them to acclimate to a setup role is also strange.
Furbush would be better as a reliever..He would get crushed the second time through the order and I am still highly skeptical of Oliver’s ability to throw consistent strikes at the major league level, we already saw what happens to him when he throws from behind to big league hitters.
Look sitting in the major league bullpen will likely not benefit either, so I view a recall with some degree of skepticism..could Perry, or Villa beneift for some work in Toledo..damn skippy..is Thomas due to get the boot..absolutely..but the timing is curious, in fact Oliveros seems better suited to join the bullpen than either of these guys.
Oliver didn't "just pitch"
he started Saturday, so his next scheduled start is Thursday.
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm hoping they start RicKKKKKKy tonight and move coke to the pen
would work with the rainouts
That would be nice
Porcello is a better pitcher.
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Bullpen issues
Glad to see they are finally ridding themselves of Brad Thomas. I would rather see those innings go to someone who has a future, and can get some low-leverage work in.
As far as Coke goes, minimal complaints about his transition to the rotation, I think it was well received, and as someone mentioned, he did what was asked as a 4th/5th starter type. He is more useful right NOW in the pen, but the struggles of Benoit, Perry. and the continuing Joel Zumaya saga. He has “been there, done that”, and could easily be the top setup guy, K ratio not withstanding.
I do like Villareal and Albuquerque, just not enough to toss them in the 8th inning.. yet.
Go Tigers.
blah blah Phil Coke blah blah
//He has "been there, done that", and could easily be the top setup guy, K ratio not withstanding.//
That K ratio might go up with the improved velocity too.
Last season, he had greater separation between his fastball (which routinely sat in the mid-90s) and his offspeed/breaking stuff. There wasn’t as big a separation between the fastball and offspeed/breaking stuff until his most recent starts, when he started hitting mid-90s again.
Also, he was in the ‘pen, so he was airing it all out knowing he’d only be going one or two innings, rather than pacing himself to go longer.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It would make sense to get rid of Thomas, but . . .
. . . I don’t see anyone from the team saying that they are going to do it.
Took long enough
I’m just surprised this didn’t happen sooner. Our pen was supposed to be lights out on paper at the beginning of the season but aside from Papa Grande we’ve been rolling the dice every time they take the field. Coke is far more valuable as a set-up man if he can replicate his success from last year. And why Brad Thomas was even on the team in the first place is beyond comprehension.
AMEN
all I can say is about time. Regardless of what he does tonight, I have had very little confidence in Coke during any of his starts this season. Dude just gets hit SO hard.
Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
These are great moves
- I never wanted to see Coke leave the pen, though I do think he acquitted himself just fine in the rotation. I had a feeling he was a place-holder to give one of the young arms (Oliver) a chance to take a few warm up starts in Toledo.
- Intrigued to see what Furbush can do. I think he’s better suited to relieve than start.
- Certainly is mysterious about who else will head out besides Thomas.
On twitter @BisonMessink
I'm still hopeful for Benoit
Everyone should remember how awful Brandon Lyon was the first months of his Tiger career, before turning it around and pitching lights out.
Benoit is just missing with location; the stuff is still good. Hopefully he and Knapp can iron it out.
On twitter @BisonMessink
long term I am not worried about benoit either
short term definitely nervous when he ptiches in a close game
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I think he’ll be fine overall. He won’t be nearly as good as he was last year, but I think he’ll do just fine by the end of the season.
by ozymandius1024 on May 18, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Where did we get the info
that they are making these moves? This is the first place I’ve seen this. Just curious.
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions
Well then in that case
I’m gonna pretend I’m on mgoblog and call him KurtVH
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
mark my words
brad thomas will still be in the pen when the smoke clears, in fact i’m betting he is there all year long.
by Charlie Mcgeehan on May 18, 2011 10:50 AM EDT reply actions
I really hope you're wrong
but I wouldn’t be surprised if Thomas stayed with the Tigers all season.
Surfing Instructor: If you get bitten by a shark, you're not just gonna give up surfing, are you?
Peter Bretter: Yeah, probably.
by ivantopumpyouup on May 18, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Source?
No mention of how this info was obtained. Even a vague sense would be nice. It is written as if it is taken from another media account and when I read it I got excited and started looking around for a link to click but it’s nowhere to be found. And none of the local media has anything up about it. If this is an exclusive tout it to the high heavens, but give a sense of where the info came from.
Trust me, Kurt would not go with this unless he was absolutely sure.
Remember, BYB has broken news before, most recently beating the media to the punch with the call up of Scott Sizemore. So there is a track record with this sort of thing.
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
I don't doubt that it's legit.
But I’m saying if this is an exclusive treat it as such. It would be a big coup to have this type of news first, but part of breaking news is an obligation is to explain why people should believe that it’s true.
by NotoriousCPC on May 18, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
If he told you, he'd have to kill you! lol.
If you have a source and you blow his cover, you can’t go back to that source again. If Tom Gage reported this, would you demand a source? (I avoided Henning, there). Over time, journalists either trust their sources or they don’t. When they run with something, they’d better be pretty sure of it’s accuracy. Readers have to do the same. I find BYB to be very responsible, and reliable. I haven’t been duped yet.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
It's funny
but my two favorite teams are Michigan Football and Tigers Baseball, yet my two most trusted sources of information are blogs.
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The media doesn't give their source every time they hear something, and I don't see why bloggers should either.
BYB has a pretty good track record, most recently Sizemore.
I suppose, although that was presented as a possibility I believe, and the time frame was a bit off.
didn't know the time frame precisely on that, just that he was going up soon
I had Al hedge bets on the blog though because I wasn’t feeling as comfortable about it.
but sizemore definitely take credit for.
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
to me 'BYB learned' implies 'sources say'
I dislike the idea of jumping up and down saying ’we have exclusive info look at us!" but I had info and it was ok to use it, so I wanted to get it out there.
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Guy pontificating at the corner bar >>>>>>>>>>>>Henning
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
by BigAl on May 18, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Okay, the REAL news is that this is a total scoop for BYB
Unless I’m missing something, no other media source is running with this, and I think it’s pretty big news in Tigerdom.
- I can’t see Coke AND Furbush going to the pen and Thomas remaining there.
- I think it’s odd that Coke would still start tonight then get pulled from the rotation, and Porcello skipped. Not the first time the Tigs do something strange, though.
- Assuming all is as reported, I’d guess Thomas is DFA’d, and either Benoit goes DL or another cut is made and I have no idea who that would be. I’d make it AA for wildness, but no strong preference beyond Thomas.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I definitely agree.
If this is the real deal, props to Kurt for being the first to break this news.
Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
I'm guessing Coke is starting today
because of all the klefty bats in the Red Sox lineup. Gonzalez (GULP!), Ortiz, Ellsbury, Crawford, Drew.
I don’t know their record versus lefty starters, but that kinda sounds like JL’s MO
Haven't read all the comments yet but...
Short term: Let Rick pitch tonight. Coke to the ‘pen immediately. Call Oliver up in four or five days, whenever Coke’s skipped spot would be up again.
You just want to see Rick do another Youk throw down!
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I just wrote a story
on Porcello for a blog I do some baseball stuff for and Rick driving a forearm into Youk’s face was my pic of choice
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
the game notes for today are already out and coke is pitching
if the game even happens. rain in boston
Yikes
I guess something needs to be done in order to patch the bullpen that has gaping holes from Zumaya’s injury coupled with Perry’s and Benoit’s general crappiness. It’s unfortunate that Phil Coke is moving because I think he had a chance at sticking as a #4 or 5 starter. However, he will provide a bit of stability to the ‘pen and should probably be replaced capably by Oliver. (I really don’t think we should expect better than a 4.50ERA / 1.25 WHIP from Oliver this year, but that’s servicable)
I’m in disagreement with the Furbush move. I think this hurts the organization in a couple of ways. First, trade value drops a lot with these moves. Coke’s value drops and Furbush certainly drops by turning him into a role player instead of one of the more dominating AAA starters alive.
Meanwhile, on the farm, a couple of rotations may have just gotten really thin. Toledo has two SP to replace. The may go internal (with someone like Oxspring and/or Enrique) or we might see some promotions. I just don’t think that there are enough arms in AA and A to promote. Yes, you could promote Gagnier and/or Turner, but then they have to be replaced in Erie. It would be tough to trickly the promotions down through the system because there don’t seem to be guys in Lakeland or West Mich that are ready for promotion.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
update: Turner won’t be going to the Hens
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions
This is good
There are good hitter in AA and there’s no need to rush Turner.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Agreed
AS well as he has been pitching, we just need him to get into his routine. Repetition and stamina for this year, and he might be on the Tigers next year some time, depending how things go. That’s pretty dam fast for a kid drafted out of high school.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Whew
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Kurt,
That was the first thing I wondered about when I saw this post.
Let's not do anything that would prevent a divisional rival from picking him up.
Minnesota Twins, have I got a deal for you!
Mauer for Thomas?
"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on May 18, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
A Mauer standie and a sandwich left by Kent Hrbek
We’re still getting the best end of the deal.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
He probably threw it into Wisconsin by mistake already
…and hit Keith Olberman’s cousin in the face with it this time.
by frisbeepilot on May 18, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Oliver and Furbish have earned a call up.
The Tigers are a much better team with Coke in the bullpen as long as either Oliver or Furbish can join the rotation with some sucsess.It also add more lefty’s to the pen,which should be a plus.Send Perry down to work on his pitching we will need him this summer.And JL needs to stop putting Benoit in late inning situations.Jl has already cost the Tigers about 4 games this year with bad moves on his part.
Agree
With the way Benoit has been pitching, we need some strength at the tail end of the pen, and Coke hasn’t been doing well as a starter, lets give him some time in the 8th inning spot and see if Benoit can get his head right.
I think Oliver/Furbush deserve a chance at starting, Andy should be much better the second time around and I say give him a shot since they’ve both been tearing up Triple-A. Maybe not a permanent solution, but if successful, would be brilliant.
So, does Coke still start tonight?
Verlander tomorrow?
Porcello Skipped?
that doesn’t make much sense to me.
Porcello tonight, Oliver tomorrow on his normal rest, and Verlander pushed back til Friday makes the most sense to me
or I suppose
push Oliver to Friday and Verlander tomorrow if you’d rather Oliver make his season debut at PNC instead of Fenway
from what I know
oliver tomorrow in toledo for his last start there. porcello is listed as Sunday, and Coke is starting tonight for Tigers
by Kurt Mensching on May 18, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's through Sunday
Tonight: Coke
Tomorrow: Verlander
Friday: Penny
Saturday: Scherzer
Sunday: Porcello
Monday: ???
by Griffin Fraley on May 18, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The more I think about this, the less it makes sense
I really don’t see how this could be true when Coke is still starting tonight. If they are moving him from the rotation, why would they skip Porcello and let Coke start? meanwhile, if they use the rotation of:
Tonight: Coke
Tomorrow: Verlander
Friday: Penny
Saturday: Scherzer
Sunday: Porcello
either Verlander or Oliver will have to start on Monday on short rest. Obviously Verlander could do it, but Leyland NEVER starts guys on short rest. Unless, they bring up Furbush and give him the spot start on monday. That seems like a lot of work to get Oliver in the rotation, and Coke in the bullpen, when ideally, they would have just started Porcello tonight, and skipped Coke.
Sorry for the long post, but the pieces just aren’t adding up.
Leyland will call in Alfredo Figaro
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
"I had info" and it was ok to use it, so I wanted to get it out there
Bad Info
Per Lynn Henning today
Leyland mentioned something else. It best explained why none of the Toledo trio has been summoned for that one-hour drive up I-75.
“Our rotation is doing pretty good,” he said, speaking of his mainstays Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer, Rick Porcello, Brad Penny and Phil Coke.
It has been anticipated for some time Coke might need to return to the bullpen, more because the Tigers late-innings crew has been less steady. The Tigers, however, haven’t issued any mayday proclamations yet.
And that’s why the Toledo starters are likely to stay put, at least for the time being. And with no fear that they might stagnate at Triple A.
“Guys don’t get over-seasoned anymore in the minor leagues,” Leyland said, making a comparison with teams of 50 and more years ago. "These guys are up here in a hurry.
“In the minor leagues, you also have the ability to work more on pitches (usually off-speed options) there than at the major-league level. But those three lefties are pitching good. We want ’em to keep pitching good.
“The more seasoning down there, the better.”
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110519/SPORTS0104/105190411/Tigers-manager-Jim-Leyland-preaches-patience-for-young-players#ixzz1MozJIPTD
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bless You Boys
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
- Giancarlo Stanton misses cutoff man, and Logan Morrison is thankful he did (Video)
- Snoop Dogg delivers memorable first pitch at U.S. Cellular Field
- The Juice: Mesoraco’s grand slam helps Reds complete four-game sweep of Braves
- Please hold: Indians’ Joe Smith jumps the gun on relief appearance
