Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Tigers have Oliveros, Simons switch places

I really don't know what to do when we don't have photos of the players I'm talking about. So let's hope Oliveros eventually dominates like Alburquerque has been. (Photo by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images)

Between the time I posted my transaction post and it was scheduled to run, Mark Anderson tweeted that the Tigers were promoting Lester Oliveros from Erie to Toledo. The pitcher Lester will pass on the turnpike is Zach Simons. My guess is a lot of people who follow Tiger prospects will see that and think, "Man, what does Simons have to do to catch a break?" or "Why do the Tigers hate this guy?" After all, Simons has been a pretty serviceable reliever at the upper levels of the system since he was the return from the Jason Grilli trade in 2008.

The thing about Simons, though, is your interpretation of his numbers can be slanted depending on whether you think he's getting robbed of a shot. If you want to see him in Detroit, you can say he was nearly unhittable in 2008 (29 hits in 53.1 IP with 61 strikeouts) and has made strides with his control since. I think this is accurate. His numbers since coming into the organization are indeed good. As a Tiger farmhand, he's thrown 205 innings, given up just 147 hits, 93 walks and struck out 206. Those are pretty good numbers and while you may not like the walks, he has improved in that regard overall and his ability to limit hits and get Ks could be argued to mitigate their harm. What's more, Simons is said to have stuff that lines up with these promising numbers.

Star-divide

That's one approach. If you just see Simons as another wave in a sea of middling relief prospects, you can make another argument. You could say his control has always been an issue, and while it was at its worst in 2008, it seems to keep rearing its ugly head. That's especially true when he's had his shots in Toledo. In 47.1 innings (in parts of three different seasons) in Frogtown he's had 21 walks. That's creeping up toward an unacceptable rate, especially when you consider he's also allowed eight home runs in that time. A penchant for home runs coupled with poor control, you could argue, does not make for a lockdown middle reliever.

Both of these arguments have their shades of truth. Simons' game has always seemed to have a wart in one way or the other, but there were pretty sizable stretches in Erie - and Toledo last year - where he seemed like he could be earning his shot. That argument can be made especially easily in an organization that has seen fit to give major league time to guys like Enrique Gonzalez and Chris Lambert while Simons was having these stretches. But I don't spend a whole lot of time criticizing the Tigers for how they handle their prospects. Maybe they wanted to see five more outings where he kept the ball down, kept it in the zone better or showed command of his curveball. I don't know, and that's why I don't say much usually.

I just know there must have been something else they wanted to see from him and he's certainly not showed it to this point in Toledo. In eight games, Simons has thrown 12.1 innings, given up ten hits, four for homers, walked ten and struck out the same. Those are terrible numbers across the board and include a couple of two home run outings and walks allowed in all but two appearances. Considering what he's done in Erie over the past couple years, I would usually be inclined to let him try to work through it to see if he can figure things out in Triple A. Kind of a "see what we have here" test for him. But at this time, the Tigers want a spot for Oliveros and Simons' early returns must have stood out.

I certainly don't blame them for wanting to clear room for Oliveros. He's been pretty ridiculous, really. In nine games, he's thrown 16 innings. He's given up just nine hits, one run, no homers and four walks. Those are all good rates which look very nice next to his 0.56 ERA. Here's the real stunner, though. He's already struck out 27 batters. As a reliever whose longest outing was 2 1/3 innings, he's already had two(!) six strikeout outings. This includes his most recent - and perhaps last - appearance with Erie where all six of his outs came via the K. The Ks haven't come is flashes either. He has a strikeout in every one of his appearances and has had at least as many strikeouts as innings pitched every time he's been called to the mound.

He's dominating Double A to the extent that you need to find him a spot in Toledo. That point is made even stronger when you realize he's a pitcher whose stuff has had the Tigers waiting for the results to catch up. That seemed to be happening when he was in Lakeland in 2009 (54 IP, 53 H, 5 HR, 16 BB, 58 K) but injury problems slowed him last year. This year, he seems to be healthy again and he's making a very strong case for showing what he can do in Toledo.

Now, before I wrap this up I want to make a couple things clear. I don't particularly care for Simons being the one to get demoted to Erie to make room for Oliveros. Simons seems to be one of those pitchers where the Tigers make him succeed for long stretches only to be given very little latitude when he struggles. As I said above, he's been pretty good the last couple seasons and it seems harsh to drop the hammer on him after eight outings and twelve plus innings. Of course, I say this without really having seen him pitch. I suppose it's possible he's just looked overmatched, but I suspect it's something more like they'd rather make this move then let go of somebody like Chris Oxspring. I don't know that I agree with the logic. I'd certainly listen to complaints.

In the long run, though, I think Simons is going to end up trying to prove to Detroit they were wrong about him rather than trying to justify a shot with the big club. As fans, we'll just have to hope the success of pitchers like Oliveros makes such decisions irrelevant.

Comment 9 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

The rest of the league didn't want him either,

he made it through the rule 5 draft. I just wish the Tigers would either give him a shot or get rid of him and quit teasing us by having him here but not trying him. It feels similar to Casper and, until recently, Scott Sizemore. Maybe we need a “free Zach Simons” campaign?

"What does a momma bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? - NO CUBS!" - Harry Caray

by 77bestrookieclassever on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry...Free Zach Simons has exsisted on here for a couple years already

Tough decision though as Oliveros was nearly untouchable so far this season. He is already on the 40 man roster so I understand their aggressive approach.

However, Zach traditional struggles in April every year…even in T-ball. He will be back, he really is an outstanding pitcher so I have no doubts. Above all of that he is an amazing person. I enjoyed the Q&A session that we had over at MCB.

James R. Chipman
Minor League Correspondent
MotorCityBengals.com

by JAYRC on May 6, 2011 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

The selfish Tigers fan in me wishes they'd just have Oliveros skip AAA.

Those numbers, holy cow. The idea of him and Alburquerque living up to their potential in a Tigers bullpen makes me way too excited.

by Nick Galea on May 5, 2011 8:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah

And with his stuff…

"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke

Contributor, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 6, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zach Simons has been getting hosed by the organization

Several pitchers with lesser resumes were invited to spring training while Zach didn’t even get an invite. It’s a bunch of BS.

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on May 5, 2011 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

and that's not a knock on Oliveros, whom I'm very interested in watching

I’d take either one, right now, throwing left handed, over Brad Thomas.

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on May 5, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually wrote an article

on this just yesterday on our site. Check it out if you would like.

detroitbaseballpage.com

by dbpjohn on May 5, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed

"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke

Contributor, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 6, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Always

thought that Simons was getting jobbed by the Tigers organization for some reason. I haven’t found one person who could tell me why he wasn’t given an opportunity at some point. The stuff was there, the results were there, yet he couldn’t even sniff the bigs. Not even in spring this year.

detroitbaseballpage.com

by dbpjohn on May 5, 2011 10:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Wake-forest-logo_small
Is Austin Jackson a top-five center fielder?

Recent FanPosts

Small
Is Prince Fielder earning his keep?
Small
Reading the Detroit News comments section on Tigers stories
Small
All-Time Tigers Team
Small
A Sunday with Dan and Jim
Small
2012 Detroit Tigers Draft Question
Amrita_rao_small
Elvis Andrus and Jurickson Profar
Img_1374_small
Scary moment for ex-Tiger Will Rhymes
Small
Austin Jackson: A mid-May appreciation
Tigers_logo_small
Advice on tickets, pre-game

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Quick Rules

Do:

  • Treat others like you'd like to be treated.
  • Stick to the topic being discussed.
  • Make arguments based on facts, not emotion.
Don't:
  • Confuse BYB with talk radio, your blog or your social networking web site of choice. We're a baseball community.
  • Feed the trolls.

Commenting Code of Conduct


Managing Editor

Dsc0178-l_small Kurt Mensching

Deputy Editors

Meatcomputer-1_small BigAl

Sparky_anderson_wall_small Rob Rogacki

5532934019_b5fa57ae98_small allikazoo

Contributors

Good_to_great_leadership_image1-262x300_1__small Tigerdog1

Suss_small Matt Sussman

6m2bts_small Melissa Heyboer

Moderators

Be050826_small NCDee

Sifl_and_olly_small 13194013