With Magglio Ordonez returning, who will be departing?
by Kurt Mensching on Jun 8, 2011 11:20 AM EDT
in Detroit Tigers Analysis
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Magglio Ordonez is a couple days late in rejoining the Tigers. That makes sense, given they'll be flying back to Detroit from Texas after tonight's game, and Magglio Ordonez is already in Toledo. Hey, it's not like they needed him Tuesday as they racked up 20 hits, right?
Ordonez appears to be set to return from a disabled list stint on Thursday, creating a log jam in the outfield that has to be alleviated somehow. It's probably safe to assume an outfielder will be on his way out, although knowing the Tigers you can never say these things for sure. (By the way: Ordonez has hits in four consecutive game but he's batting .286 with a .619 OPS and one extra-base hit in 21 at bats).
So that gives us three chief possibilities: Brennan Boesch, Andy Dirks and Casper Wells. The first two are left-handed batters, the final right handed. Writing those words suddenly I feel like we've had this conversation before, say about three months ago while the team was in Lakeland. At that time, the team decided to go north with a more veteran righty-lefty combination of batting and fielding. Will they do that again? Or has Dirks clawed his way to safety with several key plays with the bat and glove?
Since the season began, Boesch has already managed to fit a shortened version of 2010 into the first two or so months of 2011. In April, he was hot. He hit .319 with an .841 OPS. In May, he batted .186 with a .551 OPS. But for the past two weeks, and past week especially, he's hit as well as at any point in his career and has a 1.600 OPS in the last six games.
Dirks has not been nearly as good with the bat, understandably. He's been sort of cold for the past week overall. Yet he had 3 RBI in a two-game period and the run he drove in against Jake Peavy was especially key. Against Texas, he hit a home run. What makes Dirks memorable and useful beyond that is of course his fielding. He showed that off with the run he made to make the last out in left field yesterday.
And then we have Casper Wells. Right hander. Good defender. He started off pretty cold this year. For the past 14 days he's hitting .278 with a .927 OPS but he's started in just four games. That's the least of the trio. You sometimes wonder what exactly he has to do to find his way into the lineup more often. With a right-handed batter in Ordonez returning, will his at-bats completely fall off?
So to get back to our question, who should be optioned when Ordonez returns? There's no real right or right or wrong answers, to be honest. Who's going to be? I am not certain myself. I don't think it will be Boesch. Based on playing time you'd expect it to be Wells, but Detroit has bypassed other opportunities to option him. So maybe it's Dirks.
Who do you think it should be? Who do you think it will be?
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I think they're gonna send down a pitcher
Schlereth or Gonzalez is my guess.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
My guess is that Adam Wilk will be sent down
He shouldn’t be, even if it has to be a pitcher. I’d keep Wilk ahead of half the pitchers in the bullpen right now, including Enrique Gonzalez, Dan Schlereth, and David Purcey (yeah, that means the trade of Sizemore was unnecessary). Wilk throws strikes. Schlereth is wild. Enrique is an AAAA pitcher but I don’t see them keeping four lefties in the pen so Enrique stays.
Santos was completely unnecessary and should never have been called up. Sending him back was a no brainer. Casper Wells could get the ax, since Leyland has all but forgotten that he’s there. Raburn should have been a candidate, and will never be an infielder, but can’t send him down during a hitting streak. So I think it will be Wilk, even though it’s wrong.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Wells is not forgotten
He’s Leyland’s primary late inning replacement guy. He’s played in 38 games and has logged 176 innings in the outfield.
Leyland values guys like him. He can pinch hit, pinch run, and do all those little things.
Probably
Eight men in the pen now. Looks like Valverde, Benoit, and even Alburquerque all are getting late inning duty, so if Enrique goes that leaves four lefties; Furbush, Wilk, Schlereth, and Purcey. I’d expect Wilk or Schlereth to be optioned. I’d rather keep Wilk- throws strikes, is very gritty and has a good presence, doesn’t get rattled and is effective vs R or L hitters. See what he can do and let Dan get his act together pitching frequently. Schlereth has nasty stuff and may one day pull late inning duty, but not ready yet, IMO.
Then Brad Thomas comes back and anything other than DFA would be foolish, IMO.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
If Raburn wasn't getting time at second base it would be further complicated.
I think Honeyman is right, because that leaves a right and a left handed hitter to mix in left,center, and right field. Maggs might need days off also. You also have a couple good bats on the bench and late inning defense players to cover the outfield corners. But if Dirks isn’t going to get much play time, I would like to see him go down to play everyday. I think he might be the answer for next year. I just hope Maggs gets back to his old self because we all know what he can do for this team.
by Eye of the Tiger on Jun 8, 2011 11:53 AM EDT reply actions
I agree, most likely a pitcher
With Coke coming back, that puts the staff at 13, and carrying 8 relievers is probably extreme. I wish Gonzalez would go – Furbush could easily hold down the long-relief spot, and Purcey, Wilk and AlAl can all pitch multiple innings as well.
My guess is that a pitcher goes down now, and then one of the outfielders get sent down when Inge comes back from mono. I’ve been really impressed by Dirks so far – I disagree that he hasn’t been good with the bat. Three homers and a .500 slugging %, more walks than Ks, good speed and really good defense. Hopefully be next year he’s up to stay.
by CoreyMichaelDC on Jun 8, 2011 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Any chance
we get Inge to give Magglio a welcome back kiss and his mono and keep what we’ve got going on for another 15 days?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 8, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Somebody point the kiss cam at the STAT!
I like your idea…I like it a lot!
by CoreyMichaelDC on Jun 9, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think dirks
Just to give him everyday swings down in Toledo.
I'd rather have Dirks at 2B than Raburn
Maybe Dirks could adapt. Raburn can’t. I think Dirks will play, so he’ll stick around.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
That's interesting...
I wonder if he could adapt to playing 2B. However, he’d still be better off learning that position in the minors.
Has he ever played any infield positions before?
I wasn’t aware of it. I like what I see from him, though.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
I don't think TD1 was serious,
…but it could be interesting.
"What does a momma bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? - NO CUBS!" - Harry Caray
by 77bestrookieclassever on Jun 8, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm serious about NOT playing Raburn in the infield
In five years, Raburn has the worst UZR of any 2B in the American League. He was moved to the outfield four years ago in Toledo because of poor defense. Everyone seems to have figured out that he’s not an infielder. Everyone, except Jim Leyland. I get that JL wants to get as many bats into the lineup as possible, but Raburn was neither hitting nor fielding.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I meant about Dirks.
"What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?" the Waco Kid
by 77bestrookieclassever on Jun 8, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I know. Dirks won't get the chance to play 2B, but neither should Raburn.
At this point, though, I’d take a total flyer on any player, just don’t ever put Raburn in the infield. Dirks, Wells, whomever. You never know.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Rafael Belliard
He’s been working with Peralta and Raburn this season. The progress they’ve made defensively is an example of great coaching and hard work.
I've had the same thoughts as Tigerdog1.
One thing seems to pop out is that Dirks is well liked by the fans. I think he just looks like a ballplayer. I can’t wait to see him come up to bat with a confident look on his face like Cabrera or Martinez. He has that Grady Sizemore look and if not for Jackson everyone would be talking about the new centerfielder. That said, he still has to prove he can play at this level, day after day, all year. I just don’t see that happening this year. Next year looks good with a Boesch, Jackson, Dirks, Wells outfield. All that needs to be filled is that huge gaping hole that Polanco left behind. In the mean time looks like we have to choke down Raburn. In his defense, I will say he turned a nice DP last night. What happened to Rhymes. Is he performing at Toledo or is he gone for good. A good shortstop addition with Peralta moving to third might be a good move also.
by Eye of the Tiger on Jun 8, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You've excited me...
the idea of nabbing Reyes and movin peralta to third makes me happy. I’ve been saying that is the magic answer since this last offseason…if they’d pull te trigger and get him I’d do cartwheels everywhere I went.
i believe
that the mets would start the talks with Turner. That doesn’t mean that Dombrowski couldn’t talk them into only Oliver and something else, but Reyes likely does cost Turner.
With Inge on the DL (and Kelly moved to 3B)
We could use an extra outfielder until Inge comes back.
I think Adam Wilk gets sent down.
JL likes his relievers,
I think Dirks goes down so Casper can keep JL company on the bench during games.
"What does a momma bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? - NO CUBS!" - Harry Caray
by 77bestrookieclassever on Jun 8, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions
I think Furbush goes down
Because it makes no sense whatsoever, and the mild innuendo made me giggle.
by Rob Rogacki on Jun 8, 2011 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
what's our best 9?
1) AJax – CF
2)
3) Magglio – RF
4) Cabrera – 1B
5) V-Mart – DH
6) Boesch – LF
7) Peralta – SS
8) Avila – C
9) whomever is healthy, 3b
that’s not all that bad
i really liked dirks, and i think he should stay up as a defensive replacement, occasionally spell whomever (Magglio, or have Magglio DH and rest one of the Catchers)
i didn't know who to put in for #2, considering we do not have a #2 hitter
I guess raburn by default!
by redwingxviii on Jun 8, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I say that means Miggy gets to bat twice. We should inform the other managers.
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
I think a question is do Wells or Dirks need more time in Toledo?
I think they’ve learned all they can in the minors. The only thing that will help them is to see major league pitching. AAA is just a step backwards for them. They won’t make any progress there.
I think Toledo may help Wilk or Schlereth. AGone, nothing will help him. His destiny is to mop up.
I don't think so
Not that they wouldn’t benefit from playing every day, but mainly they both just need to face major league pitching.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
no
but Wells isn’t seeing much major league pitching the way they use him
by Kurt Mensching on Jun 8, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
When Don Kelly starts at 3B
Wells might be needed to pinch hit
When Worth starts, Dirks might be needed to pinch hit.
I think they both fit that late inning role.
Henning agrees with ya', Kurt.
Says it’ll be Boesch, Dirks, or Wells: http://detnews.com/article/20110608/OPINION03/106080404/1129/rss15
That means…for sure it’s a pitcher.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
When the sun comes up every morning
you get to expect it will come up the next day.
I’m still waiting for that Bonderman for Teixeira trade to go down.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Henning just admitted that he goofed and changed the article
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Pitcher
There is no way Boesch gets sent to Toledo. If it’s an outfielder, it will be Dirks or Wells. I think it will be a pitcher though. There is no need to keep 8 relievers. My guess is Gonzalez.
Leave Magglio Ordonez Where He Is
Until he can get his batting average up over the .340 point against the weaker pitchers in the Minors. If he is only batting .280 down there, what will he do against Much Better Pitchers, & why mess with a team that is winning right now?
It will be a big mistake to bring Magglio Ordonez up right now.
I'm pretty sure that there is a limit on his rehab time
MLB or the union places a limit on how long you can rehab a player like Maggs (without options I believe). Someone knows much better than I do, but I think it’s about 15 days or less. I’m guessing the purpose is to keep teams from using “rehab” as a place to stash unproductive veterans.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I see
Thanks, I did not know that. He should stay down until he earns his way back though. If he can’t perform, put him back on the 15 day for one more resting stint. He’s still not ready yet for Big League Pitchers.
by TigersFan1957 on Jun 8, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Another sticky spot
You actually have to be disabled to be on the disabled list. I’m not sure where the checks and balances are here, but I’m sure the player can grieve an undue DL assignment and I’m tempted to think MLB or the union would inspect suspicious use of the DL.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Players can file a grievance if they're placed on the DL without being injured
and then they get an independent medical exam through the league office.
They also have to consent to a rehab assignment, which Maggs did do. The length of the rehab is limited without the player’s consent, to 10 days, I think, or 20 for pitchers.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Maybe they can play that "paternity leave" card like Purcey
Get busy, Maggs!
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
Could you apply for Paternity Leave...
to spend some quality time at home with the wife – seems like a biological necessity. Really though, he can hit in simulate game activity even with the major league team, if we cannot keep at the AAA team. I for one would be extremely happy with a Dirks (RHP) and Wells (LHP) platoon with Boesch continuing to play daily.
The Chairman of the Steve Yzerman for President fan club.
by Christopher Horvath on Jun 8, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be happier with Magglio back in form
He was on pace for .300/ .375/ 20 HR, 100 RBI when he went on the DL last year. THAT’s what we need in front of Cabrera. Get Maggs, Boesch and Miggy mashing at the same time, and this race is ovah!
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
1-0 Twinks over the Tribe after 5
God, I hate rooting for Carl Pavano.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
Pavano pitched a good game.
Still 2-1 after 7 . I;m sure he’s gone…110 pitches. You just know the Twinks bullpen will throw this away.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
You Called It
Hr, Tie Game. On to Extra Innings.
by TigersFan1957 on Jun 8, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going to say Dirks,
but now that I realize we have eight relievers, I hope it’s Enrique. Dude gave up a home run to Juan Pierre. That’s all I need to know.
Dude gave up a home run to Juan Pierre.
This is the most compelling argument I’ve ever heard about anything.
Yeah, he's given up bombs to a who's who of bad hitters
Juan Pierre, Chone Figgins, Drew Butera, Ronny Cedeno, Josh Wilson, and John McDonald.
by ozymandius1024 on Jun 8, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Demotion
If an outfielder is going to be demoted (i.e. Wells or Dirks) then the one that should be kept on the ballclub is the one who JL will play the most. I wouldn’t mind seeing Gonzalez demoted either.
Dirks to 2B
Gee guys I haven’t seen a lefty second-sacker since little league.
Oh yeah....
Good call. If he could do it, it would be a web gem every play. Or an error.
Don Mattingly played 2B
in the resumption of the Pine Tar game.
He also started two games at third in 1986.
It can be done!
Pudge Rodriguez played 2B once, too
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Post misses the obvious
Santos is going down to make room for Coke. We aren’t going to keep an extra pitcher on the roster.
Come on now.
But...but....but
Lynn Henning says it’s an OF.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
Right...we don't need 13 pitchers
I’m guessing that as long as Jim Leyland gets his Don Kelly fix at 3B and Raburn at 2B, we can carry 5 other OF (Maggs, Boesch, AJax, Dirks, and Wells). I’m guessing that Dirks and Wells both see pretty limited playing time. We could really use a trade that addresses the 2B situation while shipping out an OF and/or AAAA pitcher.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
maybe
but a move will still need to occur when Inge gets back
by Kurt Mensching on Jun 8, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't we send him on a bus tour of historic American ballparks or something?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 8, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't give send away an outfielder just yet.
Magglio may be back, but I’m not sure about his range in the outfield. He may need to DH for a bit before we let him loose in right. So I say “Adios, Enrique”
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
If he DH's
who do you sit – Avila or Martinez? That’s no upgrade.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 8, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Magglio Ordonez Is No Upgrade
For the Tigers right now. He is a loss of defense in the outfield & he is ony hitting .280 something off of Minor League Pitchers. How can we call him an upgrade with those numbers? Call it small sample or what ever you want, he’s still not hitting well enough to play every day.
by TigersFan1957 on Jun 8, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Maggs but i agree with you 100%
I like the way the team is playing right now we don’t need a old outfielder in the lineup who can’t hit.Give maggs a chance but he better produce or it may be time to let him go.Hope he starts hitting right away
Schlereth or Gonzalez
I know Schlereth has a decent ERA, but man… he struggles so much with command. JL was so pissed Monday when he couldn’t throw strikes.
Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
you guys are missing the obvious move
The Tigers are trading Boesch, Perry, Oliver, Raburn, and Cale Iorg for Beltran and Reyes
(Don’t ban me Kurt)
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on Jun 8, 2011 3:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Trade Iorg?
I should ban you just for suggesting such an awful move. Cale Iorg is our shortstop of the future!
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Iorg is to the future of SS...
…as the Segway was to the future of walking. “We’ll need to rethink cities!”
For the guys involved, I always hope the prospect hype pans out (even if with another club), so I feel bad when these once-promising guys become our throw aways.
I still enjoy the jokes, though. Maybin for MVP!
Guillen says‚ "¿Que?"
Hundreds of players never make the majors.
Baseball is a cupcake of failure with success sprinkles.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Bad cupcakes
So that would make Jerrod Washburn a donut that gives you intense diarrhea for two months?
Guillen says‚ "¿Que?"
The Better Question is....
I know that this might not be a popular question, however:
When Ordonez continues to struggle at the plate, and his fielding continues to be subpar in right, how soon will it be until Leyland puts him back on the DL for a platoon of Dirks (RHP) and Welss (LHP)?
Ordonez’s statistics in Toledo do not suggest that he is ready to come back and play full-time, especially in the 3-hole. I would send Wells down right now to get him some regular time at the plate, and then I would platoon Maggs only against LHP, bat him in the 9th position, and let him prove he belongs in a full-time roll batting ahead of Cabrera. If he does, and do not get me wrong, I hope he does prove he is healthy, and should be playing full time, but if he does not, we cut ties and bring Wells back up.
The Chairman of the Steve Yzerman for President fan club.
by Christopher Horvath on Jun 8, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
Maggs is gonna come back
Start slow, and then decimate the ball throughout July and August as then we will all forget we had these silly little conversations…
His track record says so
What would be the harm,
With letting him continue to “start slow” in Toledo for the next 3 weeks or longer, and let Dirks and Wells continue to do well in the Bigs? He should earn the opportunity, rather than use the Big League team to rehab his “injury”. Does batting .286 with a .619 OPS and one extra-base hit in 21 at bats at the AAA level translate into the #3 spot in the major league batting order, when you have hit .186 for the rest of the year?
The Chairman of the Steve Yzerman for President fan club.
by Christopher Horvath on Jun 8, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say he's earned it.
You’re not going to learn much from a small sampling of appearances in Toledo. The important thing is if he is playing pain free and can turn on that ankle of his. If he’s healthy, he’ll mash. A lot of detractors point to his age but his track record when healthy is superb and he was mashing as recently as last year before the injury. So I don’t think one more year would cause his production to fall off a cliff.
That being said, it should be a pitcher, and it should be Gonzalez but as the most recent Mud Hen promoted it will probably be Wilk.
Wait til October...
I would at least like to see him "mash" or "decimate" at #9 in the order.
The Chairman of the Steve Yzerman for President fan club.
by Christopher Horvath on Jun 8, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I see the logic of that
But I think in this case it’s a combination of the fact that Leyland is going to put him in the spot he’s most comfortable in the order, and the fact that bumping him down might be seen as disrespect to someone who’s had a good career, with the Tigers in particular. Not saying that’s the correct way to go about but that is how I imagine the managerial staff will approach it. Yeah Boesch has been good lately, but he is young and showed last year he is definitely capable of falling off that cliff.
Wait til October...
Maggs Track Record
At his age I don’t think he will decimate anything.
makes sense
no rush and gives them more time to decide. let the offense keep rollin’ the way it is without throwin Mags into the middle of it
Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Magglio must feel like he can't contribute the way he wants/is expected to, at this point.
If that’s the case, his decision/acquiesence to remaining in Toledo is quite admirable.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 8, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Do not pack those bags yet Casper and Andy.
The Chairman of the Steve Yzerman for President fan club.
by Christopher Horvath on Jun 8, 2011 5:55 PM EDT reply actions
Really nice article by Jason Beck
Maggs IS a class act.
http://beck.mlblogs.com/2011/06/08/magglio-taking-a-few-more-days-in-toledo/
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
+1
You gotta love Maggs
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jun 8, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amen
How many established veterans would do that? Very few if any, I would hazard to guess. Their egos wouldn’t allow them to stay in minors despite they migh know it’s the right thing to do.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
Not sure
but they really need to make room for Sizemore and Larish. They’re great prospects. Maybe it’s also time to give Hanahan a shot.
lol@the Tigers AAA “prospects”. Just glad Maggs is coming back and the rest of the moves IMHO don’t matter (though I think Wells is a tick better than the other two).
Magglio Batting For The Hens 6-09-2011
Magglio went 0 for 4, dropping his average too .233. He Struck out twice.
Rhymes is batting .318 for the Hens right now.
Magglio Batting For The Hens 6-10-2011
Magglio went 1 for 2, a Home Run, 2 RBI’s, & 2 Base on Balls. Much Better.
by TigersFan1957 on Jun 11, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
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