Comeback thwarted, Tigers lose to Giants in opener
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 1, 2011 10:59 PM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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Giants 4, Tiger 3
KEY STAT
29 minutes: The length of time the Giants' half of the ninth inning took. Oy.
KEY PLAY A
Brennan Boesch hit into a double play with bases loaded in the ninth inning. On a line drive up the middle, Brandon Crawford caught the ball and stepped on second. Strangely, the game may have ended an at bat earlier when Andy Dirks appeared to ground into a double play but the second baseman failed to get any outs.
The Tigers were lucky to even be in that position, given Key Play B
KEY PLAY B
With runners on first and third, the Tigers chose to pitch to Pablo Sandoval -- the best player on the Giants team. He made them pay for the decision with a long fly ball to center field. Austin Jackson may have been able to track it down and limit the damage somewhat. But Andy Dirks pitch hit for him and didn't quite get to it. The ball bounced out of play for a ground-rule double.
The Giants tacked on few more when the bullpen -- Valverde included -- couldn't throw strikes. They led 4-1 after the top of the ninth.
KEY THOUGHTS
After Detroit rallied against Giants closer Brian Wilson in the eighth inning, Tigers closer Jose Valverde decided to match the lowly performance. He walked two and allowed three runs on three hits without even making it out of the ninth inning. Both runs were walked in. One by Brayan Villarreal, however.
Rod Allen thought Sandoval should have been pitched around. I thought he should have been pitched around. Valverde got to two strikes before giving up the hit. Give credit to the batter -- but when the guy on deck is hitting .240 with .293 OBP and .375 slugging, I think you pitch around the big guy to get to him.
But the real difference for most of the game was Giants starter Madison Bumgarner, who shut the Tigers out for 7 1/3 innings.
Props to Tigers starter Brad Penny, who allowed just a run in seven innings on the mound. He gave up seven hits and two walks. Good performance.
Also a good show by Lester Oliveros, who struck out the first two batters he saw in his MLB debut. He also walked one and allowed a hit before finishing the eighth inning unscathed.
I just can't believe the ninth inning turned out like that. Ugh. I don't seldom get emotionally invested into the results of a single game but this one made me want to beat up a water cooler like Brian Wilson.
Expletive deleted.
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I know I'm the only one...
…but I didn’t really mind pitching to Panda there. The double play is already available and if you walk the bases loaded with one out you’re pushing your luck in a different respect. I know Panda >>> Huff, but wasn’t sure it was worth the price of loading up the bases .
Ahh, but if it were vintage version of the Tigers' Aubrey Huff
then he would have done whatever the worst outcome could be. A double play. A strikeout. Both. You name it – it would have been ugly
Tigers Aubrey Huff...
…beat a hole in the ground from the exact same spot he’d pound the ball as he grounded out to second over, and over, and over.
I may boo tomorrow when he comes to bat. I never boo.
They started out not pitching to him
trying to get him to go fishing. After a 2- 0 count, he swung at ball three and ball four, making it 2- 2
Then Valverde put one right over the plate and he crushed it. Horrible decision, horrible pitch.
Then, he has Schierholtz down 0- 2 and he plays games with the bases loaded, and walks in a run. Just like he was clowning around. No good.
I’m not buying into the criticism of Leyland for using Valverde in a “non save” situation. You have to use your best pitchers in the highest leverage situations. There was nothing to save Valverde for with a tie game in the ninth. No chance he’d get a save opportunity tonight at that point. Bring him in. It’s the games with a four run lead where I object to bringing in the best pitcher. Save him for the highest leverage situations. Same with Benoit. Regardless of inning.
What I definitely object to is letting Inge and Raburn hit, then pinch hitting for Jackson and Wells. Leyland’s sacred cows go untouched again.
Not sure why they had RR playing in after the lead off double, either, allowing the runner to go to third on the broken bat single. Runner wasn’t going to score from second on an infield hit.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Raburn didn't bat in the 8th
And I’ll take Raburn over Kelly and Santiago in the 9th because power was called for there.
You know I'm right about this.
I didn't say he did
but he was allowed to bat when the team was losing, as was Inge, and JL hit for Wells and Jackson. Boesch and Dirks were both available and both more likely to help the team than Raburn, the way he’s been (not) hitting.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I see your point, but . . .
Santiago is then in the game at second and Raburn’s last at bat goes to Santiago or Kelly. I think Leyland was right to hold off on the pinch hitters until the 8th.
You know I'm right about this.
With 2 outs, I can see that
Leyland obviously wanted to not use up two players on a single pinch hit substitution. If he hits Boesch for Raburn, he then needs a 2B. If he hits Dirks for Inge, he needs a 3B and has to use Kelly. With runners in scoring position, I’d still have made the switch, but then I’d not have started either Inge or Raburn last night. Giving any of their AB’s to anyone else would not bother me.
I think there is too much focus on the lineup. Much of it is deserved, but the bottom line with this team is they have to pitch better. We finally get a solid performance from Penny, and Valverde blows it. Worse yet, I think he was screwing around with a cocky attitude pitching to Sandoval after he got two strikes on him and they had decided to pitch around him, and farting around with Schierholtz who is an excellent two strike hitter when he had him down 0- 2. I believe Leyland was rightly pissed at Valverde when he went out to get him.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I'll blame Leyland
Got that sour stomach feeling yet again as he brings in Valverde in the ninth like a lemming (he’s my closer!!!!). Never mind Valverde’s slider hasn’t been working last couple of outings. To not have someone else ready in the pen in that situation is criminal, or indicative of sub 500 career manager. Say what ya want about his Pittsburg numbers and payroll, but it hasn’t stopped teams like Tampa Bay and Minnesota from achieving.
Porcello needs to go down for awhile, santigo traded (no compensation value, worth as good) before Guillen is activated…let the Turner or Crosby era begin already.
Talked with Minny Fan for business yesterday…and even after the last 5 of 6 losses, he is confident Twins will catch us…and i am in agreement, darn.
"Always 1984"
Valverde
has a slider? Thought he was fastball/splitter only.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
by JimWalewander on Jul 2, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I sure as hell hope you photoshopped that!
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
probably not
I had a boxer who looked the same
"He's a real stable young man. He's got it figured out. He's got real good mental furniture." - JL
If your going to bring issues to the table,
At least know your info. Papa Grande has never thrown a slider. He has two pitches, a mid 90’s fastball and a split(he will take some movement off as a "get me over split and turn it back up when he needs it.)
by bmark6197 on Jul 2, 2011 4:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The anti-Leyland stuff is out of control.
Sandoval isn’t Barry Bonds.
Literally everything Leyland does is getting picked apart. It’s like the way some people are about politicians they don’t like. No matter what the politician does, they scream with outrage.
It’s old. I’d love to hear Leyland get credit for a win, since it appears he bears the blame for every single loss.
I actually think he was perfect last night(almost)
he had the right batters up at the right time; gave valverde the shot to hold; te dirks for Jackson mve was peculiar, especially considering he likes he defense in at the end, but dirks has been swinging well and I understand the move.
JL did a good job putting the the tigers in a great spot to win; it’s not his fault valverde didn’t perform well.
Villereal over Benoit???
Why did they even sign Benoit if they are not going to use him in that situation?
"It's my first big league win and you can't beat that. I'm kind of elated to tell you the truth. I wanted to continue the streak of our starting pitchers. That's 5-for-5 right there." Justin Verlander
It was out of hand by then, I guess
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Besides, it may be the case that Valverde is not available now for tomorrow's game
Might have to use Benoit in a “save situation”
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Yeah, Valverde is not pitching tomorrow
Hopefully, Max can go 7 or 8.
"It's my first big league win and you can't beat that. I'm kind of elated to tell you the truth. I wanted to continue the streak of our starting pitchers. That's 5-for-5 right there." Justin Verlander
by Verlanderful on Jul 1, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Then should have used him in the 9th
and then use Valverde if needed in 10th.
"It's my first big league win and you can't beat that. I'm kind of elated to tell you the truth. I wanted to continue the streak of our starting pitchers. That's 5-for-5 right there." Justin Verlander
Dude, if Leyland doesn't know what he's doing,
how the hell are WE supposed to know what’s up in that smoke filled room?
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Smoke and mirrors,
Still 50 games left against AL Central. 12 against Chicago and Cleveland. 13 against KC and Minnesota. Have dominated the Sox and Twins lately, just need to beat KC and Indians.
"It's my first big league win and you can't beat that. I'm kind of elated to tell you the truth. I wanted to continue the streak of our starting pitchers. That's 5-for-5 right there." Justin Verlander
by Verlanderful on Jul 1, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Using Valverde in the 9th in a tie game is the right move
You rely on your best pitcher to get 3 outs, then hope that your lineup can get a run in the bottom of the 9th.
Absolutely
You need to use your best pitchers in the highest leverage situations. Most managers use their closer only in “save situations”, but they’ll make an exception with a tie game in the ninth inning at home. That’s because, at that point, there isn’t going to be a “save situation” in that game.
I’d go much farther. I’d use the best pitchers in the seventh inning in a tie game, or with a lead, particularly with runners on base and the opposing team’s best hitters coming up. Leyland has said that Benoit will only work the eighth inning, and that’s not very wise, IMO. But using Valverde in the ninth was absolutely the right move. Why a pitcher would not perform well in that situation as opposed to a “save situation” defies logic, but Valverde seemed to be screwing around out there with Sandoval and with Schierholtz, and it cost us the game.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I've heard of this closer phenomenom before, but it's ugly with Valverde
The dude is 19/19 in save opps, but can’t seem to pitch when there’s no chance of save. I realize that using your best available pitcher in this situation is the right move, but if I were manager, my confidence is Valverde in non-save situations would be shaky. I’d probably still use him…kind of like hitting a 16 vs. a 10 in blackjack…it’s the right move, but somehow I know it will bite me in the ass.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
One of the worst offenses in the MLB
The Giants have had trouble scoring runs all year. Valverde should be able to get you a inning of shoutout baseball, hold the 1-1 tie and hand it over to the offense in the bottom of the ninth. Instead he keeps pulling this Rodney/Jones type of crap. He isn’t the only one at fault for the loss here but this stuff with him “making it exciting” has been going on for too long this season.
It will be interesting to see what both teams do now that their closers can’t pitch the rest of the series. I am glad Leyland saved Benoit since it was obvious when he pulled him he would not be available to pitch at least tomorrow.
Trapped a Detroit Sports Fan Forever
by Panic in Detroit on Jul 2, 2011 12:06 AM EDT reply actions
Other than the end result, I have no objections
It’s a policy of mine to try not to judge or have an opinion about Leyland’s in-game decisions. I use to play arm chair manager some years ago when Phil Garner, Larry Parrish, and Buddy Bell were our managers, then I got the MLB Xtra Innings package and found out that all managers drive me crazy when I try putting in my own 2 cents.
If I were to have an opinion, I’d say that yanking Romo after one batter was a stupid move. Putting in the lefty Lopez to pitch to Boesch proved to be dumb. Then yanking Lopez for Wilson after just one batter was an even dumber move. Then letting Wilson start the 9th inning after sitting for about 30 minutes was a stupider than dumb decision. If I still played fantasy baseball, I might be upset because they threw away Bumgarner’s win or maybe I’d be happy because Wilson came up with the Win.
I’d think this without even caring that SF played a 13 inning game Yesterday. Luckily the Tigers won me over and I don’t play fantasy baseball anymore. I was happy to see the Giants manager almost blow the game. I can imagine the Giants fans screaming for Bochy to be fired after this game. That’s if I had an opinion, which I don’t.
I was ther in person and wondered . . .
. . .if any explanation was given for Jackson trying to steal third with one out and Ordonez and Cabrera due up. Did someone miss or misread a sign?
Fun debut for Oliveros with the two strike outs. They must have told him he was replacing Al Al and he took it literally.
I can’t wait to watch a replay of that Wells play in the first.
You know I'm right about this.
This has happened several times this year, and it drives me crazy when it happens.
The opponent’s only dangerous hitter will come to the plate in a key situation, a base will be open, and he still gets a chance to swing the bat. Sandoval tonight and a couple of times with Bautista earlier in the year stick out in my mind.
I can’t stand to watch another team’s best hitter given a chance to beat us.
Whatever. Maybe Sandoval gets the IBB and Valverde proceeds to shit the bed regardless. But at least we lose the game because of bad pitching instead of bad managing and bad pitching.
Here is my recap from my seat in the nosebleed seats...
Casper Wells is the Rocketman. Not only did he throw a strike to home from 300’ away, but he had to take it away from some dumbass fan first to do it. That was a key play (call it “C”).
The game was lost by Valverde. There’s no other reason. Leyland put his closer into a tied game in the 9th- that is what your closer should be there for. His performance was less than ideal. (BTW- I don’t think Jackson makes that catch. He split the outfielders and we’re lucky it was a GRD).
PH Dirks and Boesch was right and good.
Inge came through. Maggs came through. I was very happy to see both get key hits.
It was a great game to see in person, even if they lost, even if it was a 1 run game most of the way.
"He's a real stable young man. He's got it figured out. He's got real good mental furniture." - JL
Only problem
is it wasnt a save situation. No matter what anyone says, that does make a difference. Former closers who broadcast say the same thing.
they say that when the game it outside of a save situation
if you can’t get amped up to pitch in a tie game in the ninth inning you really should be in the announcer’s booth rather than the dugout
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 2, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
There is a difference
between a “non save situation” like we had last night, a tie game in the ninth, and a “non save situation” where we have a five run lead. Maybe there is some psychological thing that some closers have, but it’s just in their head, and it’s a huge weakness if they can’t get past it. Maybe the guy needs the pressure to perform well- but there was as much pressure last night as there was in any “save situation”. The game was on the line. “Saves” are a creation of the media and the marketing departments of MLB and their clubs. Whatever it is, Valverde needs to get over it or his option can be declined and we’ll get someone that doesn’t run their life by statistics.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Watching the replay
I do think Jackson gets to that ball. Dirks almost gets there and Jackson is much faster and better at reading the ball off the bat. He doesn’t throw out the runner at home from 400+ feet away, but at least the situation is much more under control with a runner on 1st and 2 outs.
I'd have pitched to the Panda...
The Tigers weren’t behind yet. I don’t give any extra base runners. He also is a decent DP candidate.
You know I'm right about this.
by HighOPS on Jul 2, 2011 8:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
smashing water coolers doesnt make you a competitor
it makes you an a@#hole. Shave your stupid looking beard.
DETROIT RED WINGS – "war were declared"
Valverde
The Big Potato has been playing with fire all year long and it finally cost him big time.
Way to many baserunners allowed. I still remember Todd Jones, Mr never an easy save!
Jones and Rodney were in another realm
Valverde teases us, but his WHIP is just 1.34 this year and just 1.16 last year.
Todd Jones was at 1.27 in 2006, and 1.43 in 2007, but saved 37 of 43, and 38 of 44.
Rodney saved 37 of 38 games and had a WHIP of 1.47 in 2009.
Valverde saved 26 of 29 last year, and is already 19 of 19 this year.
Maybe I’m just numb to it after Jones and Rodney, but Valverde doesn’t scare me nearly as much.
Save percentage is one of those stats that is dependent on many factors outside of a pitcher’s control, but it is the ultimate measure of success for a closer. In the end, nothing else matters, whether due to chance or performance. An 85% save pct is good, and the Tigers have managed to have someone in that role that gets the job done every year, with the exception of late in the 2008 season after Todd Jones finally ran out of gas, and Rodney blew 6 of 19 save chances. (Then they gave him the full time job when Lyon melted down in the spring).
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I hope the entire Giants team gets infested with parasitic worms.
Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
13 hours later and you're still hoping that!
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 2, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
My issues go much deeper
both in time and severity. We’re talking decades and plane crashes!
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
We're at the 1/2 way point of the season and we're already calling curses on the opponents?
You seem to have given up hope
"He's a real stable young man. He's got it figured out. He's got real good mental furniture." - JL
they gave me a cream
it should clear up soon
"He's a real stable young man. He's got it figured out. He's got real good mental furniture." - JL
I went to the game last night....
But I didnt see the “Eat em Up” Tigers guy. Bummer.
President of the "Bring back Neifi Perez" fan club.
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