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Smoltz's Law

On discussion boards of the old pre-Web Internet, there was a concept called Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, any Internet argument will eventually get so overheated that somebody will pull out the ultimate nuclear weapon of evil -- the Nazis and the Holocaust -- and drag them into the argument to try to make their point.

The traditional corollary was that the first person to reference the Nazis was admitting that they had lost the debate, since any argument that needed to depend on an analogy to a unique event was fatally flawed. [1]

I'd like to propose a version of this for Tigers fans, especially during trading season. Call it Smoltz's Law: "As a discussion regarding a potential trade by the Detroit Tigers grows longer, the probability of a comparison to the Smoltz/Alexander trade approaches 1."

Like the Nazis, the Smoltz/Alexander trade was a one-time, unique situation that doesn't lend itself to any meaningful analogies. [2] Tiger fans need to stop comparing any potential trade of a prospect for a proven player to it. [3]

Star-divide

The famous August 1987 trade of John Smoltz to the Atlanta Braves for Doyle Alexander is unique not just for the insanity it provokes among Tigers fans, but also for the inconceivable results for both teams. As such, it's more likely to confuse than clarify any discussion of contemporary trades in which it's raised.

Let's look at the two players involved:

Smoltz was a 20-year-old, 22nd-round pick with a 5.68 ERA and a 1.63 WHIP in AA ball and a season and a half in the minors when the Tigers traded him to the Braves for Alexander. He wasn't the Braves' first target -- they just basically wanted a decent pitching prospect.

Alexander was nothing special, either. By the time he got to Detroit, he had pitched for the Dodgers, Orioles, Yankees, Rangers, Braves, Giants, Yankees (again), Jays and had come back to the Braves over the course of 17 seasons. He was, with some variations, a 3.5 to 4.0 ERA guy everywhere he'd been. In Atlanta, he had a 4.13 ERA (105 ERA+) and a 1.21 WHIP in the first half of 1987. He was a serviceable 35-year-old journeyman.

The Tigers needed another starter. The Braves were in rebuilding mode and picking up young pitching. The trade made sense to both teams but wasn't huge news.

Lightning then proceeded to strike twice. Once it hit immediately, and once it hit over the course of a career.

Something happened to Doyle Alexander, and he had one of the best half-seasons in the history of the Detroit Tigers. He went 9-0 with a 1.53 ERA (278 ERA+), more than 2 ERA points better than his career average and a point better than his second-best season.

If he'd pitched anywhere close to his career averages -- or even how he'd pitched in the first half of the season -- the Tigers would have lost the pennant to the Jays instead of beating them by two games and this trade would be a simple case of a rental by a desperate front office in a pennant race that turned out badly because the prospect was undervalued. It's hard to explain just how incredibly unlikely the production the Tigers got out of Alexander that season was -- there was nothing whatsoever in Alexander's history or future that would imply that he was capable of that kind of production. (He also lost the magic in that postseason, hanging up a 10.00 series ERA and getting pulled in the 2nd inning of the deciding game.) It was like going fishing for bass in the Detroit River and catching a shark. Or a mermaid. Or Jimmy Hoffa.

The next season, Alexander would post a 4.32 ERA (87 ERA+) over 34 starts. (He went to his only All-Star game, but that was the baseball equivalent of Scorsese getting his Oscar for "The Departed.")[4] That same season, Smoltz was called up and started 12 games for the woeful Braves, going 2-7 with a 5.67 ERA (67 ERA+).

The lightning then struck again. [5] 1989 would become Smoltz's first All-Star season, and he'd have had many more than the 8 he did if there weren't rules against all of the pitchers on the NL All-Star team coming from Atlanta.

Don't forget, though, that what happened with Smoltz is possibly even more unlikely than what happened with Alexander. Just as there was no way to predict that Alexander would have a historic and wildly unlikely half-season, there was also no way to predict that Smoltz would become arguably the most accomplished pitcher ever to come out of the Detroit Tigers farm system. Calling him the "best" gets tricky, but he's probably top 3 with Newhouser and Lolich over the course of his  21-year, probable Hall of Fame career. Again, there was absolutely nothing  in Smoltz's prior performance to suggest that he was going to turn out the way he did. There's no way to go back to his stats and point at what the Tigers "should" have seen. He was selected in the bowels of the draft as the 574th player taken because he was a decent high school and college pitcher from Michigan who hadn't been taken yet. Every piece of statistical evidence and historic understanding of pitchers was telling the Tigers, and rightfully so, that this was a kid who more likely than not would never crack an MLB roster.

So, what does this mean for Smoltz's Law? An analogy or simile is intended to make something easier to understand by comparing it to something that is already understood. However, analogies that attempt to draw meaning from situations that are not comparable actually inhibit a correct understanding. Just as Godwin's Law and its corollaries argue that an analogy to the unique historic situation of Hitler, the Nazis and the Holocaust invalidates any argument that relies on an analogy to them for support, I argue that, in our own trivial and non-genocidal way, that we're invalidating any trade deadline argument in which John Smoltz and Doyle Alexander make an appearance. Unless you really think that one of the proposed players in the trade is either going to have one of the most statistically-unlikely seasons ever in the history of the franchise, or the other one will someday be considered one of the best pitchers in the history of the game...find another example.

 

[1] - Save your Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/Andrew Jackson/etc. arguments for other forums. I didn't come up with it, Mike Godwin did.

[2] - Save your hate mail. It's a joke. No, I am not actually comparing a baseball trade to 6 million dead and a world plunged into war. Who do you think I am, George Will?

[3] - This means you, everybody going nuts over possibly trading Turner, Oliver, Strieby, etc. for proven major league pitching.

[4] - He was robbed at least 4 times. Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Gangs of New York, Aviator.

[5] - Quite possibly the only time that Leo Mazzone has ever been compared to lightning.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.

Comment 45 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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Can we make this mandatory reading for anyone that joins this site?

by Rob Rogacki on Jul 19, 2011 6:20 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Although, I'll admit

I was concerned where you were going with that footnote about The Departed for a little bit.

by Rob Rogacki on Jul 19, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

And to do the footnotes with hyperlinks I think you need the triangle brackets

"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke

Contributor, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jul 19, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

from now on, when I hear this, I will direct them to the internet and this article.

Country Strong

by Rusty Kuntz on Jul 20, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I loved the George Will line,

But this whole post kind of reminds me of the Jurrjens for Renteria deal …

You know I'm right about this.

by HighOPS on Jul 19, 2011 6:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I think the Renteria-Jurrjens Corollary to the Smoltz Law applies

to any discussion of Dave Dombrowski’s time and/or future in Detroit.

by jri on Jul 19, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

But that doesn’t make it any less painful.

by H2OPoloPunk on Jul 19, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except that one trade had value going both ways

Rent-a-shortstop, not so much.

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on Jul 20, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, R-J fails as a metaphor,

Except that it comes up a lot. We have a lot of Jurrjens in the system evidently.

You know I'm right about this.

by HighOPS on Jul 20, 2011 10:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Renteria-Jurrjens only looks bad in retrospect.

You were trading a pitcher with seven games of MLB experience and an outfielder who never made the majors for a 32-year-old, 5x-All-Star, 2x-Gold Glove shortstop who’d had an .860 OPS the prior season and still had a year of club option on his contract. It let Guillen move to 1B to replace the departing and unlamented Sean Casey.

More often than not, that turns into a great trade for the Tigers.

by johnmoz on Jul 20, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The only red flag was how much Renteria struggled in Boston

He had a great year in ATL before the trade, but his stint in Boston the year before was pretty bad by all accounts. I know that I was somewhat hesistant at the time despite Renteria’s great ’07 numbers.

by Rob Rogacki on Jul 20, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hesitant*

Though hesistant sounds kinda cool

by Rob Rogacki on Jul 20, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

With the benefit of hindsight, and DD's comments after 2008

When DD announced that the Tigers were not going to pick up Renteria’s option for 2009, he stated that he was “surprised” at the lack of range that Edgar had in the field. Well, if that was the case, that’s just bad scouting. Edgar didn’t suddenly come to the Tigers and lose his range. He had lost quite a bit of range with the Braves. Either a good scouting report, or some ability to used advanced defensive metrics would have clued him in. If Leyland was expecting the same kid that he had in Florida some eons later, he got a rude awakening.

Edgar had finished third in the NL in batting the previous season, was acquired for a fraction of his contract by the Tigers, so the cost was paid in terms of talent. JJ had shown that he had remarkable poise and a full repertoire for a very young pitcher, and he had success in the majors in his limited time up. DD also had some durability concerns, and I was pretty certain that he’d trade JJ sooner, rather than later anyway. Nobody expected Edgar to hit .330, but nobody expected such a poor start for him back in the AL, and the horrid start that the team had only heaped fuel on the fire. He actually finished up hitting .296 .343 .469 .812 after the break, to finish the year at .270 with a .700 OPS. But that was considered garbage time, as the Tigers finished last and out of the race.

But by analogy, there was reason to believe that JJ would amount to something, but no such reason for Smoltz, and that’s what is so utterly silly about those that drop the Smoltz trade as an example of why the Tigers should never trade a prospect for an aging veteran.

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on Jul 21, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

At the time, I was excited to get Renteria

It was like adding another All-Star to our mix of All-Stars.

by Keith-Allen on Jul 20, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot...

Taxi Driver/Mean Streets/Last Temptation of Christ

Looking back at his filmography it is absolutely inconceivable that he didn’t win an Oscar until a few years ago. That is all you need to know about the value of the academy award.

If the author brings up an off-topic thread, do I get dinged for responding to it? All’s fair in love/war/Scorsese advocating.

by SkylineSeats on Jul 19, 2011 6:55 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't consider him robbed for Taxi Driver

Because I think that Rocky, All the President’s Men and Network were all legitimate contenders that year. “Robbed” is Goodfellas losing to Dances With Wolves.

by johnmoz on Jul 19, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Robbed

is Shawshank Redemption or Pulp Fiction losing to Forrest Freakin’ Gump

by mparks on Jul 21, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Debating Scorcese's films only adds to the quality of content at BYB

If it starts to get out of hand, then maybe we’ll reconsider. Otherwise have at it.

Of course, Goodfellas is one of my top-5 favorite movies of all time, so I’m a little biased.

by Rob Rogacki on Jul 19, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lot's of people have said this better already, but

Post = Good.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

by momotigers on Jul 19, 2011 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Sadly

the people that most need to read it, will be the ones who will not

Still great job done by the author

"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson

by rock n rye on Jul 19, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read it......and needed to

I broke both the SMotls and the Jurrgens rule in one post earlier today -

Got my required reading in and won’t mention again

Actually a good rule

by Jim Bunn on Jul 19, 2011 11:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Wonderful analyization, johnmoz.

That trade, to put it simply, worked EXACTLY like it was supposed to for both teams. Can’t ask for more than that in a trade. My best friend at the time was a Blue Jays fan, man that was awesome!

Past trades are just that, in the PAST! No reason to rehash them over and over again. That’s why I shut up about Sizemore (much to Kurt’s delight, I’m sure) once the post and discussion ran it’s course. He’s an A now, and Purcey is a Tiger with all my support. All of you posting Sizemore’s numbers every 5 minutes need to get over it.

Totally agree, Rob. This should be mandatory for anyone that even wants to think about signing up here at BYB.

"What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?" the Waco Kid

by 77bestrookieclassever on Jul 20, 2011 1:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Good stuff

I’ve had a cut n paste reply for any “Smoltz for Alexander was a bad trade” comment.
I’m on the road now, so I paraphrased it earlier today. But this rocks!

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on Jul 20, 2011 1:08 AM EDT reply actions  

I think the dogs come out of the woodwork to shout down the 87 trade.

I know I will fire full force on anyone that bemoans that trade.

I have a grand idea: let's win a game.

by 13194013 on Jul 20, 2011 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very interesting

I did not know Smoltz was such a longshot prospect. That information definitely changes my view of what I had believed to be a terrible trade. Thanks for posting!

I had tigerblood in my veins long before Charlie Sheen went crazy.
Go Tigers!

by ewild on Jul 20, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions  

One Question

Since it is usually helpful in understanding the impact of something that might happen or is pending, by making an analogy to something that’s familiar from the past, and Smoltz/Alexander is now off limits, and Jurrjens/Renteria doesn’t fit, what analogy do you recommend? I was going to suggest ‘Family Guy being traded from Cartoon Network to Fox’, but that doesn’t quite seem to fit either. . .

by TigerTom on Jul 20, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

If you mean team specific, my awful trade is Travis Fryman being dumped.

For overall awful: Seattle trades Jason Varitek, Lowe and someone else for Heathcliff Slocumb.

I have a grand idea: let's win a game.

by 13194013 on Jul 20, 2011 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

The Problem is

in general, fans tend to get too emotional about players in general. It’s very easy to sit back and play armchair GM, but I in no way envy DD’s job. Evaluating, projecting, and fixing current and future rosters is a tricky business whether you include emotion or not.

by rjschroed on Jul 20, 2011 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Another trade that worked

Walt Terrell from the Mets for Howard Johnson. Gave up a good young 3B for a solid if not spectacular SP. Have to give up talent to get talent. Not as extreme on either side as Alexander for Smoltz, but both teams got what they sought.

by MR_AZ on Jul 20, 2011 11:19 PM EDT reply actions  

nice observation

that’s a good pitcher-for-position-player trade. like jurrjens/renteria, only positive on both sides (maybe slightly favoring the Mets, long-run).

by TigerTom on Jul 21, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

The value of a great pitching coach

Looking at the Braves of the 90’s, when they seemed to turn decent pitchers into AS pitchers, and the same for Dave Duncan and the Cardinals now, makes me wonder why teams don’t put more of a premium on identifying and training coaches at the MLB level. Outside of those two above, which pitching coaches develop pitching studs on a regular basis?

by MR_AZ on Jul 20, 2011 11:24 PM EDT reply actions  

This is my cut and paste, stock reply to Smoltz comments.

Feel free, they’re not copywrighted!

Smoltz for Alexander was a great trade.

- It led directly to the Tigers winning their division should’ve led to a World Series title after Doyle went 9- 0 with a 1.53 ERA.

- Alexander also won 14 games for the Tigers the following year, throwing 5 complete games and made the All Star team.

- Smoltz probably never would have made a difference with the Tigers, if he even made it through the organization without Bobby Cox and Leo Mazzone to guide him.

- Smoltz was drafted by the Tigers in the 22nd round of the 1985 MLB June Amateur Draft

- Smoltz was a minor league pitcher, and not a particularly great one at the time. Before the Tigers traded him in his second season in the minors, he had a record of 4- 10, an ERA of 5.68 and WHIP of 1.63 in 21 starts.

- After being traded, Smoltz struggled in the Braves’ system the rest of that season, going 0- 1 with an ERA of 6.50 and a WHIP of 1.75.

- The season after the trade, when the Tigers finished second with Alexander winning 13 games, Smoltz was in the minors, or going 2- 7 for the Braves, with a 5.48 ERA and 1.67 WHIP.

- The window of opportunity was closing for the Tigers in ’87. They were right to go for it. The Tigers finished second with Alexander in 88, last the following season, and haven’t won a division title since, never winning more than 85 games until 2006. Smoltz wasn’t going to make a difference on those lousy teams.

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on Jul 21, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

goood read had no idea Doyle Alexander was that good for you guys, even if only a half-season

incredible stuff

~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~

Span lef Left, Revere in Center, Delmon / Kubel in RF

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 25, 2011 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

We need more laws like this

No complaining about line-ups, contracts, trades, or managerial decisions. Imagine all the Tiger fans, living life in peace. You can say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. I hope someday you’ll join us and the Tiger fans will live as one.

by Keith-Allen on Jul 26, 2011 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Bring on the speech police!

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on Jul 26, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bah

We’re fans. We’re supposed to bitch about trades.

"Aside from the stuff I haven’t been diagnosed for yet, I don’t have a problem."- Phil Coke

Contributor, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

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