Report: Danny Worth not on playoff roster
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 29, 2011 4:48 PM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintUPDATE:
Here's an update from Chris Iott of MLive: There are 27 nameplates for the Tigers. Brennan Boesch (DL) is one of them. So our final position player is Omir Santos.
However, two of the three out of Brad Penny, David Pauley and Ryan Perry will make it. My guess is Perry and Pauley in, Brad Penny watching.
Fox Sports' John Keating got into the breaking news business this afternoon when he reported he saw infielder Danny Worth at the airport today. Keating hoped to get to New York, but his flight was delayed. Worth was bound for Lakeland, Fla., to stay ready in case his services are needed.
Worth, obviously, was a heavy favorite among most people to make the Tigers' playoff roster due to his flexibility in the infield.
What no one has said -- not the Tigers, not a reporter -- is who actually made the Tigers' playoff roster.
So the final position player spot could be anyone.
The guess that makes the most sense is Omir Santos. The Tigers may not need a backup catcher in the playoffs, but they might need one. That is, if Alex Avila suffered a minor injury that kept him from his catching duties, and for some reason Victor Martinez was unable to catch, the Tigers would be without a viable catcher. If Avila was removed from the roster due to injury to make room for Santos, Avila could not play in the ALCS should the Tigers make it there. So Santos is a great insurance policy against the worst. (Imagine the backlash if the scenario I detailed did happen. People would wonder why the Tigers didn't do more to prevent it.)
Rhymes would be the other possible choice. He plays second base. I wrote all along not to rule him out. Jim Leyland likes him. He plays second base and is pretty good on the basepaths. While a lot of fans would certainly go "Huh?!" it wouldn't be the biggest surprise in the world either.
The roster is due at 10:45 a.m. tomorrow, so it could be awhile before we find out officially. So in the meantime, what do you see happening?
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not a surprise
Danny Worth’s value is as a utility defensive player, which we already have in Ramon Santiago. There are still multiple 3b (Betemit, Inge, Kelly) and 2b (Raburn, Santiago, Rhymes) that may be on the roster, cutting Worth was logical. Rhymes is a better option for now because he’s a better hitter and better pinch run option. If Guillen gets healthy, they’ll both be in Lakeland.
The other possibility is 13 position players / 12 pitchers which likely would keep both Worth and Rhymes in Lakeland. I still think there is no way Santos goes to NY.
I thought vmart came out because there wasn't really reason to play him
but maybe he’s not as healthy as leyland said to the media.
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
martinez
appeared to come up a little gimpy running to first base last night. he kept shaking his leg.
I saw that too
I thought he looked pretty gimpy when he got to first base late in the game last night. He went from first to third immediately after that, so who knows?
by Bret Boone's Farm on Sep 29, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Leyland was quoted
as saying Martinez came out because he fouled a ball off his toe and they needed to drain the blood but that he was “fine.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/det/report
I see no reason not to believe him. Leyland usually seems like he errs on the side of caution when he talks about player health.
by MakeItTrizzle on Sep 29, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Beck says that team medical staff had to drill a hole in his toenail to drain the swollen toe
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110928&content_id=25375354&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
Have you ever done that?
It’s really not that bad. I stubbed a toe pretty bad on Isle Royal a few years back and had to do it mid trip (~40 mile loop), heated up a needle and…. BAM.
I was fine. It’s not nearly as gruesome as it sounds, in my opinion.
by MakeItTrizzle on Sep 29, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I have done that before.
It happens while playing sports. The blood needs to be drained out. Small prick with a sterile needle will do.
by spartynation on Sep 29, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The pressure relief
is the most amazing feeling there is.
Jim Bouton talks about watching Jake Gibbs have this done in the 60's in the book "Ball Four"
The story goes that when the drill bit broke through the nail Jake pulled his arm back and ended up waving his arm around with the drill attached. He also talked about how the other players all werer watching cause they loved gruesome stuff like that.
Jason Beck has a breakdown of the rosters
and he includes Santos as a Catcher on the depth chart. Victor isn’t listed as a catcher.
There is only one thing that really irks me, and y’all know what that is. If Worth is not on the team, that’s just a little bit greater chance that Leyland will put Raburn at second base. In fact, he may even be starting at 2B, with Magglio in RF to open the series against CC Sabathia. With all the lefties in the Yankee lineup, Raburn at second is an accident waiting to happen, and Maggs in RF is an adventure. I’d much prefer to see Santiago at 2B, Raburn in RF, and Magglio available to bring in for a key moment. Girardi has a bench with veteran hitters that give a manager pause before playing with his relievers.
Beck’s lineup also has Pauley, Perry, and Al Al. Carlos Guillen is also headed to Lakeland to rehab and hopes to be ready for the LCS.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
maggs has been on a roll lately
no reason not to start him against the lefty
He hit .419 in September
with an OPS over 1.000. Part of that is he isn’t playing against righties.
Historically, he’s been decent vs Sabathia, but nothing special.
get used to it
Raburn will be starting at 2b against all LH pitchers. It’s been happening the entire second half, and the stacked right hand hitting lineup has been our best offensive output lately. I like our chances in game one.
Jason also has Below listed in the relief corps
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
One of those relievers won't be there
One of those relievers won’t be there. He has Valverde as the closer and seven “middle relievers”. They’ve announced that they will carry 11 pitchers and 14 position players. There will be seven relievers total.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Santiago and Ordonez will probably start
Santiago’s 7 for 24 career vs CC. That’s arguably better than ‘11 Ordonez, before you start talking about Defense. Raburn hasn’t had much success against Sabathia either (8K in 23AB). I bet Raburn starts on the bench for this one. If he doesn’t maybe Young should – he’s not done well either.
Betemit should start over Inge also. Againsts lefties, it can be a toss-up between the 2, Inge hasn’t been able to hit CC (.190 career BA) while Betemit is 3 for 5 vs. CC.
Cabrera has murdered CC. Expect some IBB.
Raburn at 2B
Not surprising. His defense might be the worst in the league at 2b in the past 1000 years, but he’s still a pretty good option.
viable
I’d say ‘willing’ not viable, as Inge simply doesn’t have the willingness to play Catcher. Otherwise, he’d be the perfect emergency catcher in a situation like this. His attitude hurts the team.
actually inge was asked in August if he'd be willing to catch and he said he would
but he hasn’t caught for years and most of the pitchers are new to him.
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 29, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe it.
Inge is a real team player. In a pinch, he could do it.
Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Fight!
by Brand New Hero on Sep 29, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Amazing what a demotion to AAA will do for one's attitude
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Fine
but my point is that he’s been unwilling in the past, and as a result he’s both out of practice and unfamiliar, making him a poor choice for the role, even in an emergency situation
In an emergency...
I think somebody with 5 or 6 years of MLB catching experience is a GREAT emergency option. I know it’s not ideal, but if we’re really talking emergencies, how many teams have an emergency catcher with that kind of experience?
If Inge is willing to do it (and any professional athlete should be willing to do anything in the post-season), than there’s no need for Santos. Inge probably knows the pitchers better than Santos since he’s been watching them pitch all year while Santos has been watching guys like Andy Oliver and Adam Wilk.
And to be honest, I’d much rather have a bench player with some sort of game value (pinch hit / pinch run / defense) than just an emergency policy in Santos. He brings nothing else to the team.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Most teams carry a backup
so an ‘emergency’ in that situation would be exponentially less likely than in the Tigers situation w/o Santos on the roster.
You're right
Dammit.
I still don’t want Santos. I’m willing to take Inge on the chance that Avila gets hurt.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Where do you get Inge was unwilling? I have never read that anywhere
In fact when they finally dumped Ivan Rodriguez, Inge DID catch.
I think he would in an extreme circumstance like mentioned in the original post.
His unwillingness to catch from a few years ago stemmed from concerns that his career would be extremely short if he continued trying to be a full time catcher with his knee problems. I think the last few years, where he really struggled with knee issues even starting at 3rd base, have proven that his concerns are valid. I’m not an unconditional Inge supporter by any means, but I don’t hold that against him anymore.
@papaalphakilo
The people who suggest Brian Kelly should not curse are the reason the rest of us created profanities. - Spencer Hall
I understand that
It’s rational to be selfish, but it’s not what a fan wants to see, particularly for a guy who has been handsomely (over)paid and treated very well by an organization.
I think he’d do it in an extreme situation too, but he’s put the team in a situation where that’s not a very attractive option at this point.
i would rather have rhymes than santos
avila is an ironman and will’s speed and defense would be nice to have late in games
Rhymes is not that good defensively.
I don’t have the stats to back me up, and I’m too lazy to look for them, but just by eyeballing it for a couple of seasons, Santiago is better defensively.
better than raburn
having two defensive infielders on the bench would be a nice luxury
Kelly would be better than Raburn also
it’s a question of getting Magglio in the lineup vs a LHP. Leyland has not totally benched Maggs and Inge, he gives them a start against LHP’s.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Another question
Why hasn’t the official playoff roster been posted yet? wasn’t it due at 10 AM? are we really trying to deceive the Yankees by holding our cards close to our vest on Omir Santos and Will Rhymes?
Tiger Career BA/OPS vs Sabathia
Alex Avila .143 .286
Wilson Betemit .600 1.467
Miguel Cabrera .563 1.591
Carlos Guillén .295 .727
Brandon Inge .190 .557
Austin Jackson .286 1.000
Víctor Martínez .240 .816
Magglio Ordóñez .268 .822
Jhonny Peralta .059 .308
Ryan Raburn .174 .501
Ramón Santiago .292 .625
Delmon Young .167 .389
They look at head-to-head
We’ve seen lineup decisions before (with Santiago and others) where they’ve made starts based on history. They definitely look at this stuff.
Inge’s history is overwhelming here. If he gets the start over WB I’ll be shocked.
Raburn’s been hot, so he may start or not, but I’d guess it’s over Young or Ordonez, not Santiago.
No Betemit
Betemit hasn’t played at all against LHP and he’s not about to start now. He obviously is a better hitter from the left side and brings nothing to the table defensively. I’m completely fine with Inge starting this game and would bet big money that is the direction Leyland goes. I’d be shocked if the starting lineup was anything other than:
1) Jackson – CF
2) ORdonez – RF
3) Young – LF
4) Cabrera – 1b
5) martinez – DH
6) Avila – C
7) Peralta – SS
8) Raburn – 2b
9) Inge – 3b
by mgibbymsu on Sep 29, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty sure he did
before Inge was recalled.
I was advocating for the split rotation as hard as anyone, but Betemit’s been decent against some lefties in the recent pass and the history with Sabathia (3 for 5) relative to Inge is overwhelming.
I’d take you up on that bet. Just send me your SS, credit card, and bank account numbers and I’ll take care of it ;)
If you’re going to argue defense, how can you have Raburn at 2B??
Can Inge catch?
he used to be a catcher before right?
It’s hard to imagine the Tigers adding Rhymes and leaving off Worth, who can play more positions. So, I think it’s not going to be an extra infielder. A lot of people are insisting that Santos has no chance, but he seems like a logical choice.
My Playoff Roster Prediction (ALDS)
Starting Lineup (most days)
CF – Austin Jackson
3B – Wilson Betemit (I liked this move by Leyland the last few days)
LF – Delmon Young
1B – Miguel Cabrera
DH – Victor Martinez (can also 1B)
C – Alex Avila
SS – Jhonny Peralta
RF – Magglio Ordonez
2B – Ramon Santiago (can also SS)
Bench Players (not fully sure on complete utility of all of these players)
Don Kelly (3B/LF/RF/P)
Omir Santos ©
Ryan Raburn (2B/3B/LF/RF)
Brandon Inge (3B/C)
Will Rhymes (2B/PR)
Pitching Staff
Verlander → Fister → Scherzer → Porcello (Starting Rotation)
Coke → Below → Benoit → Valverde → Al Al → Schlereth → Pauley
The starting lineup will depend on that days pitcher (Lefty/Righty of course) and would be subject to changes. The Rotation was pretty much set in the last week by Jim Leyland and shouldn’t be changed. Omir makes the roster as a backup in case something happens to Alex and/or Victor and Will Rhymes makes it for his utility as well as his ability to pinch run late in games. The Bullpen was a harder decision, but with the way Penny and Perry pitched most of the 2nd half of the season, I can’t see them making the roster, which opens up spots for Schlereth and Pauley. the rest of the bullpen is pretty much a no-brainer, your setup men being Benoit and closer Valverde, Al Al, Coke and Below for the rest of the bullpen
Fan of the Tigers ~ Red Wings ~ Lions - No Better Town to be a sports fan of!
Avid Gamer and Anime Junkie
Beck tweet
Jason Beck just tweeted that there are 26 names up in the locker room including Santos, Pauley, Perry, Penny. No Below, Rhymes, Worth. For what its worth.
I dont like Perry OR Penny on that list
Fan of the Tigers ~ Red Wings ~ Lions - No Better Town to be a sports fan of!
Avid Gamer and Anime Junkie
12 pitchers
I would assume there has to be a 13/12 split if what he’s seeing is correct. Of course if he counted 26 than we have one too many anyway.
Here's Iott
http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2011/09/tigers_have_not_released_playo.html
27 names. Boesch is one of them. So he can’t play, delete him. Santos is in.
It’s still Penny, Perry or Pauley. I feel like it’s not Penny.
That would be my guess.
One of them is a long reliever. That’s not Perry. Pauley was a starter until this year and, IMO, is a much better pitcher than Brad Penny right now. It makes little sense to me to throw Brad Penny into a bullpen role when he hasn’t been there in forever. I can also see why they carry an extra guy. Respect for the work they’ve done all season being with the team for one, and they’re now allowed to make mid series roster moves in the case of an injury. If Al Al comes up lame, for example, they have his replacement right there.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
NY is stacked with lefty bats
why wouldn’t want a third lefty in the pen? I could see leaving him off if Penny or Pauley had proved something/anything over the past month but they’ve sucked. C’MON JIM!
pauley gets out lefties better than righties
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 29, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Pauley did a lot of things better in Seattle
I’m sure you are quoting his full year stats. His performance did not merit an inclusion on the playoff roster in my opnion. Below’s did.
I am
and that’s because trying to use a smaller sample size is seldom the best choice when you could use a full season.
If I want to talk about what’s gone on in the past month, I could point out that Duane Below hardly earned anything with an ERA of 9.
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 29, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
lefty aside
I trust Pauley more than Below… but I think the extra lefty would be helpful for this series
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Off-topic, but has anyone seen any TBS coverage maps?
I’ll be in Indiana Saturday and the 5, 7, and 8:30 games obviously overlap.
First three Tiger games are at 8:37 PM, ET
coincidentally, that puts the Yankees in prime time every night. What a strange coincidence!
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Yanks going with a 3 man rotation
CC in games 1 and 4, Nova in 2 and 5, Garcia in game 3. If we get to game 5… love the JV vs. Nova matchup. Not feelin as good about CC vs. Rick in game 4.
Sorry if this was already discussed, but I just saw the it
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
This man has the right idea!
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Sep 29, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Santos on the roster...
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
If Avila rolls his ankle or something on a bag in game 1, you don’t want to have to injury replace him because you don’t have another C on the roster. Then you would not have him available for the ALCS.
Santos is the 25th guy. He shouldn’t play anyways. The really silly thing will be if we decide to carry 12 or 13 pitchers for a 5 game series. That would be dumb considering you only need 4 starters. Should be 4 starters, 7 bullpen guys and 14 position players. if you can’t make it through a 5 game set with 7 bullpen arms… doubt the series gets to a 5th game, because you most likely stunk for 2 or 3 games to wear out your pen that quick.
Has the roster
been announced. I have seen it.
I kinda buy this
If you need a pinch runner, use a pitcher that isn’t important (DANIEL SCHLERETH).
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Sep 29, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Santos is consistent with Leyland's last post-season example
Leyland played exactly zero of his bench players in 2006 as starters. Having Worth or Rhymes on the team doesn’t matter if you already have Raburn, Santiago and Inge who can cover 2B, SS, and 3B between them in case of injury to Betemit or Peralta.
Santos won’t play either, but at least he’s a legit catcher, unlike anyone else on the roster who “can” play the position.
by Big Z in Orlando on Sep 30, 2011 8:19 AM EDT reply actions
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