Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Yankees rotation preview: Sabathia, Nova and Garcia, oh my

The Yankees will apparently go with a three-man rotation for the playoffs. Joe Girardi announced CC Sabathia will start Game 1, rookie Ivan Nova will start Game 2 and Freddy Garcia will start Game 3.

If Games 4 and 5 are required, the Yankees will apparently reset by sending Sabathia back to the mound. (This is in contrast to the Tigers, who appear to be happy with a 4-man rotation. Unless Jim Leyland is bluffing. Which he's probably not. But you never know what to believe with him.)

Looking at the Yankees playoff rotation, well, it just doesn't look that good. Yankees fans may take offense to that, but compared to most playoff rotations they just don't rate that well. Sabathia is obviously good. Nova has had good results, at least. Throwing Garcia is just admission AJ Burnett has been awful and the Yankees' offense is typically good enough to survive whatever starter takes the mound.

Here's a sketch of the three pitchers.

Star-divide

CC Sabathia

Sabathia really doesn't need much of an introduction, does he? He's big, he's incredibly good and he wears pajama pants to the mound.

His fastball averages 94 mph, and his slider is devastating. He has 8.72 strikeouts per nine innings and just 2.36 walks. His FIP is 2.88 and his xFIP is 3.02. Plus he gets batters to put the ball on the ground a lot. Yeah, he's good.

But he's nothing new to you, so we'll move on.

Ivan Nova

SB Nation's Rob Neyer wrote about Nova:

(H)is current status as the Yankees' No. 2 starter probably says equal parts about his growth and their desperation.

It isn't to say the 24-year-old right-hander isn't a good pitcher. He's got some nice results. 16 wins, 3.70 ERA, 59% quality start.  His big thing is a ground ball rate of 52%. Since he calls Yankee Stadium home, that's a great starting point for any pitcher.

But don't pay too much attention to the wins. For one, well, it's wins. For two, he gets nearly 6.5 runs per 27 outs during the time he's on the mound, and 6 for games he starts. Going five or six innings with that kind of support will tend to get you some wins and not a lot of losses.

The ERA is good, but he's a pitcher who struck out 5.33 batters per nine innings while walking 3.10. That results in a Fangraphs-calculated SIERA of 4.14 and xFIP of 4.16. One area he has been especially lucky compared to his teammates is bequeathed runs scored. Yankees relievers let just 4 out of 29 get on the scoreboard for the best ratio on the team.

Fangraphs wrote of Nova earlier this month:

Nova appears to have been pitching over his head the entire season. Among all the candidates for the number two slot, Nova carries the lowest strikeout rate, and his 3.21 walk rate trails only AJ Burnett. While that’s hardly encouraging,

Nova will be pitching his games at home, where he is a career 4.19 ERA compared to 3.51 on the road. As you would probably expect, home runs have been a leading factor for that.

So he's decent, but we're not talking about the best pitcher in the world here. My gut sense is the Yankees would probably prefer not to start him in Game 2 of a playoff series, but they don't exactly have a lot of other good options so he's the second best of what they've got.

Freddy Garcia

One front page story at Pinstripe Alley -- the SBNation Yankees blog -- questioned whether to put AJ Burnett on the mound rather than Garcia. The numbers "surprisingly" -- he wrote -- favored Burnett. The fans in the comments seemed to agree.

Fangraphs' wrote the case for Garcia:

Garcia has only produced a negative WPA in 38% of his starts, whereas Burnett stands at 59%. Burnett has also been torched more frequently, as he has had eight starts this season with a -.200 WPA or worse, compared to just four times from Garcia. When you have a killer offense, you don’t necessarily have to have a three-hit shutout, you just want the game kept within reason. Garcia has shown he can do that with greater regularity than has Burnett

At this point, I have to point out that I can barely believe Garcia is in the Yankees playoff rotation -- and that has nothing to do with numbers.While battling injuries on a yearly basis, he actually signed a minor league deal with the Tigers in 2008. He even made it up to the big club. Of course we know he was with the White Sox the past two seasons and could get annoying.

OK now I'll show shock because of the numbers. Garcia pitched just twice in August, and four times in September. In those September games, he has allowed opponents an OPS of .973 and has an ERA of 7.36. During those four starts he has not gone more than 6 innings. He has allowed 7, 5, 3 and 0 runs. Maybe the Yankees like that pattern and expect -2.

Quoting ESPN New York's story:

The promotion of Garcia, who turns 35 on Oct. 6 and has a fastball that tops out in the mid-80s, exiled A.J. Burnett, the Yankees' $16.5 million per year No. 2 starter, to the bullpen and likely ensured that Bartolo Colon has thrown his last pitch in a Yankees uniform.

"We just like the way that Freddy's pitched," manager Joe Girardi said. "We talked about it and debated it a long time and decided to go with Freddy. We like the way Freddy's competed all year and we're going to send him out there."

The fastball in the 80s was apparently what caught Girardi's eye. The article reports Garcia was selected to give Detroit a look different from Sabathia and Nova.

Garcia has a 3.62 ERA but 4.36 FIP. He strikes out 5.89 per nine innings while walking 2.76.

Comment 42 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

doesn't freddy garcia kill the tigers?

or am i making that up?

found one table that would suggest tigers hitters fair pretty well against him, so i’m probably wrong.

by redwingxviii on Sep 30, 2011 10:54 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm a Yankees fan (I feel as though I need to include that disclaimer when I post anywhere)

And I’m curious why the Tigers wouldn’t use a 3 man rotation. Is it that the starting rotation is deep enough that it isn’t necessary, or is it that Verlander isn’t good on short rest? I can’t imagine him not being good on short rest, but I also can’t imagine not wanting to send him out there as many times as possible.

I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.

-- M. Rivera

by GMan83201 on Sep 30, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

some times the tigers say and do diffferent things

I suspect if the series is 2-1 yankees, Verlander will be out there. If it’s not, he won’t.

by Kurt Mensching on Sep 30, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

what about game 5 in 06

when he did not pitch the gambler
said he would not and then he didn’t

by davewilliamt on Sep 30, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

in 06, the rotation was fairly even, so electing Bonderman

over the gambler, wasn’t necessarily a huge drop off. Even though kenny had been pitching lights out. Sending Porcello over verlander in an elimination game would just seem asinine.

The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer

by Vreeland2 on Sep 30, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's really neither of those.

Verlander hasn’t gone on 3-days rest this year, so it’s not like it’s because Leyland thinks he’s bad in that situation.

It’s also not because the rotation is just that good. There’s a measurable difference between Fister and Porcello (which is really the difference between JV going on 3-days rest or not).

It’s because Leyland makes decisions based on his gut and this is what his gut told him. Unless ownership/management told him not to risk injury by pitching on 3-days rest, which I doubt (and don’t really think is a big risk).

by rcpratt on Sep 30, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is some pretty good statitical evidence

indicating that pitching on 3 days rest substantially reduces effectiveness, is there not?

by KJ@theonlycolors on Sep 30, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

(Although I’d agree that Leyland would be making the decision based on his gut, not statistical evidence.)

by KJ@theonlycolors on Sep 30, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess that was really the point.

But really, if there were ever a pitcher to defy statistical trends regarding pitch counts, innings counts, rest, etc., it’s JV.

by rcpratt on Sep 30, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Some guys can do it

Some can’t. CC Sabathia is a horse and has shown that a handful of starts on short rest have little or no effect on him. It seems like Verlander should be similar, and even if he’s only at 85% I would think it would be better to have him out there.

I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.

-- M. Rivera

by GMan83201 on Sep 30, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

the key word is "handful"

The Brewers rode him to the playoffs in 2008, but he possibly wore down (or maybe just had one bad game) when they got there. He hasn’t had to do the same this year, as the Sox just imploded, letting New York coast to the AL East title. CC is capable of doing a month on three days rest effectively, if that single sample is any evidence.

Eat 'em up, Tigers!

by ahtrap on Sep 30, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

If a game 5 is needed

If worst comes to worst, there will be a game 5, but I expect Verlander to pitch game 1 of the ALCS.

by Keith-Allen on Sep 30, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

True story

I was at Freddy’s one and only win as a Tiger. Hopefully Game 3 is also a Tigers win ;)

by ChrisDTX on Sep 30, 2011 11:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

The Yankees got burned last year pitching a rookie on the road in the playoffs

That was Phil Hughes, who at the time had much better road splits, but he got lit up by Texas. It may be that Joe G is afraid of a repeat of that, and hopes the home stadium will give this year’s rookie a boost. It may also be that, in the cavern that is Comerica Park, he figures Freddy’s junkballing style will keep more balls in the park. I think most Yankees fans would agree that the recent performance of Garcia in September is worrying, but AJ Burnett still scares us, Colon has fallen off even worse as the season has gone on, and Phil Hughes has just not been reliable all season. So, Freddy wins by default.

The thing with Nova is, he is a ground ball pitcher. He does not get strikeouts, but he also does not give up a lot of fly balls, which in Yankee Stadium is a very good thing. So looking at his K rate is a bit misleading. If he keeps the ball down, and Fister does not, the Yankees bats will probably give him enough run support to keep them in the game.

by waw on Sep 30, 2011 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Nova

is a solid are, to me looks to me a lot like our Rick Porcello

                                        ERA FIP xFIP BABIP K/BB GB% WAR
Rick Porcello 4.75 4.06 4.02 .316 2.26 51.5 2.7
Ivan Nova 3.66 4.01 4.15 .281 1.72 52.9 2.7

The number that worries me about Porcell (and would worry me about Nova) is the K/BB, you can do all right getting a lot of ground balls and not striking people out, but throwing a bunch of walks in makes for a poor combination, especially against a patient team. The Tigers aren’t an especially patient team so I may not end up hurting Nova much.

by rif23 on Sep 30, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha, maybe

that is actually a lot better than I thought we were, I guess Miguel and Avila skew us into the good as much as DY and Raburn skew the other way

by rif23 on Sep 30, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh-man

look at that formatting and grammatical mess and when we have guests too, for-shame.

by rif23 on Sep 30, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

You also didn't offer your guests a hot beverage

As is the social custom.

I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.

-- M. Rivera

by GMan83201 on Sep 30, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where's Robert California when you need him?

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Sep 30, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

what if.........

tigers are down 2 games to 1. would leyland really pitch ricky in game 4? How would he justify not sending out the cy young winner in game 4? I guess I dont see the logic in any of it? 3 days rest is like bullpen session. if leyland thinks he gonna win this thing without verlander throwing every 4th day, he is more dumb than I first thought. Fisters been great but……. wait and see. Lets go Tigers!!! Lets go JV!!!

by suprtr on Sep 30, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

It's not just

that JV hasn’t pitched on 3 days rest this year… I believe that he hasn’t pitched on 3 days rest EVER for the Tigers. I’m not sure I’d want to be experimenting with that in the playoffs for the first time.

by HawkeyeEdward on Sep 30, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Down 2-1

i fully expect to see JV. My guess is that Leyland wants to put off riding Verlander too hard until we absolutely have to. If we can put it off until the ALCS JV will have that much more left in his tank.

by rif23 on Sep 30, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

My thoughts

Let’s hope this is a non-decision. If we’re down 1-2, I say he pitches JV, but there’s a crowd that thinks Leyland should pitch JV either way; up 2-1 or down 1-2. If we’re up 1-2, there’s no way I’d pitch JV. I’d let Porcello try to beat Sabathia. If it happens, that’s great and we have JV ready to go in ALCS1. If not, we have JV vs. Nova for game 5…also a pretty good scenario.

If we are down 1-2, there’s no way we throw Porcello vs. Sabathia.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

by momotigers on Sep 30, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet he would

This is the same manager that called Alfredo Figaro up for game 161, rather than pitch Verlander on three days rest. Figaro hadn’t started a game at any level in over three months.

I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!

by Tigerdog1 on Sep 30, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leyland

has done a GREAT job (there are always naysayers). He knows what he is doing. I have no doubt whatsoever that if the Tigers are facing elimination we will see JV and if the Tigers win that game we go with Fister. In other words, down 2-1 and we have a 3-man rotation.

Mel

by Melvin B on Sep 30, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yankees Record

You know, I’ve never understood how the Yankees could have such a great record this year. The article points out how crappy their rotation is. No depth whatsoever. Okay, they have a great bullpen, but Rivera has had better years. Their great veterans are showing some age — they have had better years.

So, how come the Yankees have done so well?

Mel

by Melvin B on Sep 30, 2011 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Their pitching has been good enough

Their bullpen is pretty good and that offense is stellar.

I don’t get why people say their rotation blows- it’s not horrible.

"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz

Contributor, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Sep 30, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's honestly a combination of decent pitching + really good offense + exceptional bullpen

For more of the year, our starters have given up about 4 runs a game. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I’d say our greatest strength is that we can score more than 5-6 runs a game, our starters only have to go 6 innings and then we get to our bullpen, which I believe has been the best in the majors (not being a douche, I just don’t have the numbers in front of me to back that up). For the 7th, 8th, and 9th, we essentially have 3 major league closers in Soriano, David Robertson, and of course Mo. CC can go the distance, and Nova’s numbers do not do him justice to how well he’s really pitched this year, especially since coming back from the minors and improving on his slider more. Freddy…….well, he’s Freddy.

Cashman essentially knew that he couldn’t get a top-notch pitcher during the off-season, so he went with a decent starting rotation, which has performed better than expected, and fortified the bullpen so that they could hold the runs our offense has the capability of scoring. That’s what has pretty much carried us the entire year.

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Sep 30, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

One more thing to think about

It’s Friday, and the Tigers have won 10 straight on Friday. Hopefully JV+JV can make it 11

by Mark Osbourne on Sep 30, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I am resisting the urge to post an animated GIF

From that “Friday” song by Rebecca Black that was big this spring. Instead, the link to the video will suffice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Sep 30, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqstF4V4Nl4

"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz

Contributor, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Sep 30, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Wake-forest-logo_small
Is Austin Jackson a top-five center fielder?

Recent FanPosts

Small
Is Prince Fielder earning his keep?
Small
Reading the Detroit News comments section on Tigers stories
Small
All-Time Tigers Team
Small
A Sunday with Dan and Jim
Small
2012 Detroit Tigers Draft Question
Amrita_rao_small
Elvis Andrus and Jurickson Profar
Img_1374_small
Scary moment for ex-Tiger Will Rhymes
Small
Austin Jackson: A mid-May appreciation
Tigers_logo_small
Advice on tickets, pre-game

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Quick Rules

Do:

  • Treat others like you'd like to be treated.
  • Stick to the topic being discussed.
  • Make arguments based on facts, not emotion.
Don't:
  • Confuse BYB with talk radio, your blog or your social networking web site of choice. We're a baseball community.
  • Feed the trolls.

Commenting Code of Conduct


Managing Editor

Dsc0178-l_small Kurt Mensching

Deputy Editors

Meatcomputer-1_small BigAl

Sparky_anderson_wall_small Rob Rogacki

5532934019_b5fa57ae98_small allikazoo

Contributors

Good_to_great_leadership_image1-262x300_1__small Tigerdog1

Suss_small Matt Sussman

6m2bts_small Melissa Heyboer

Moderators

Be050826_small NCDee

Sifl_and_olly_small 13194013