Brad Penny, Omir Santos make Tigers' playoff roster
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 30, 2011 10:55 AM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintDidn't I warn you this was going to happen? I did. Multiple times. But I let your cool logic talk me out of it. And yet here we are. The playoff roster is out. The Tigers are taking Brad Penny, they announced this morning. They're also taking Omir Santos as the backup catcher.
What does Penny add to the playoff roster? I can't say that I know. But I knew they were a team who believes in loyalty and thought (almost) all along he'd be there when the postseason began.
Can he start? Please, no. Do you want him pitching in relief? I doubt it. Is he better than Duane Below or David Pauley? No. Can he pitch to the myriad left-handed sluggers the Yankees have? Of course not.
Yet lo' and behold, Penny is on the Tigers roster anyway. Loyalty. Misplaced, but loyalty.
Santos obviously makes sense. Despite claims from manager Jim Leyland that Victor Martinez could have caught games down the stretch, it sure didn't look like he could the way he wss hobbling around. Add to that a foul ball off his toe that required blood to be drained and the roster move was decided for Detroit.
Santos is there in case of emergency. If Alex Avila gets banged up, but not so bad to knock him out of the playoffs entirely, Detroit needed a catcher who could play while Avila rested on the bench.
UPDATE:
The @Tigers are tweeting the roster so I'll just repost it. Note, they include players on the DL in this.
ALDS roster pitchers: Alburquerque, Benoit, Coke, Fister, Penny, Perry, Porcello, Scherzer, Schlereth, Thomas, Valverde, Verlander, Zumaya.
ALDS roster hitters: Avila, Martinez, Santos, Betemit, Cabrera, Peralta, Santiago, Boesch, Dirks, Jackson, Kelly, Ordonez, Raburn, Young, Inge
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I was wrong
I really hope Victor is OK and certainly hope he can be a backup catcher again next year. I’m a little shocked to have to use a roster spot for a guy that is absolutely not a pinch hit or pinch run option. He has no value unless Avila gets injured, in which case we can’t win this thing anyway.
second that
penny has no right to be on the roster. wtf
If Penny plays...
its like throwing up the White Flag of Surrender, lets hope we don’t see him AT ALL this series
Fan of the Tigers ~ Red Wings ~ Lions - No Better Town to be a sports fan of!
Avid Gamer and Anime Junkie
Kurt..you did say that
i am pissed..we are keeping Batting Practice(BP) in the playoff roster.
Aaaarggggghhhhhh..Why Skip Why?
Penny over Below in the pen, I'm okay with it
You don’t need a lot of lefties against the Yanks as most of the players hit lefties better than righties except for Gardiner and Posada.
wow
if they put him in the game in ANY pressure situation… I’ll just lose it
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Penny and Santos
They are like ugly hubcaps on a Cadillac. Sure they look stupid and don’t make sense, but they shouldn’t interfere with the rest of the car. If the Tigers are living and dying by the 24th & 25th guys on the roster, there are greater issues at work.
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
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by rock n rye on Sep 30, 2011 11:15 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 4 recs
can't disagree
but the playoffs don’t have a do-over. You should always take 25 guys you think are most useful.
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 30, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
First, I agree on Santos. We absolutely need the insurance. I assume VM is unable to catch. You really don’t want Kelley or Inge catching many innings. If Avilla gets hurt and you have to add Santos at that time, we lose Avilla for the next round. So, really, is there any choice in the matter?
Now as far as Penny goes, HE IS TERRIBLE. If instead you have Pauley, I can see situations where we might need him. (Maybe a wild game). He has been very shaky, but he is better than Penny.
Mel
Silly
I knew they would do this, argued with Kurt that they would, and am still pissed that they did.
HATE
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
I am not happy with Brad Penny’s inclusion. I assume it’s for the same reason as Santos’ — should the unthinkable happen and one of the starters can’t go or gets shelled or some freak injury causing us to need four innings we’ll go to him.
I just hate me some Brad Penny (sorry Brad, nothing against you as a person [though I’ve heard you’re not Mr. Congeniality, anyway])
Baseball is like a poker game, nobody wants to quit when he's losing: nobody wants you to quit when you're ahead. ~Jackie Robinson
by LittleLeagueTiger on Sep 30, 2011 11:29 AM EDT reply actions
I like 23 of the 25 selections.
But naturally, it’s going to be the other two that get all the attention. I don’t like Brad Penny being on this roster, and I think that I give him more credit than most for the job that he did this past season. Just that lately, he’s been a lousy pitcher. A detriment to the team. Either the worst or the second worst starting pitcher in the league after the break, along with AJ Burnett. I don’t buy the experience bit either, because Penny has little or no experience in the bullpen. Not that David Pauley is any great shakes, he isn’t, but if we have to see Penny, or Pauley, or Schlereth, or Perry, that’s not a good sign for the Tigers.
As for Santos, I don’t think he’s necessary either, but I can see the reasoning. Apparently, Victor behind the plate is not an option. Avila will continue to carry 100% of the work load catching.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Penny
Among qualified starting pitchers in the American league, Penny had the highest ERA at 5.30, and the highest WHIP at 1.56. After the All Star Break, Penny had the highest WHIP at 1.80 and only Burnett had a higher ERA- Penny’s was 6.53. He’s not a good pitcher right now.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Woe, Woe, Woe, Easy Killers
I am not saying I agree either. But, lets not panic. You guys have to ask yourselves. How many wins did Penny/Santos contribute to? Thats right 11, and that was gifts the rest of the team gave Penny. We won a hell of a lot of games without these two, and there is going to be one man not on the roster who probably helped us win this year. My point is, LETS NOT PANIC over two roster spots. The solid nucleus is playing. They are the ones that got us the 95 wins. So, buckle up, grab a beer, put your faith and your big panties on and lets ROLL.
PLAY BALL!
Being an organization that demonstrates loyalty to its veterans has to count for something.
I’d think ditching Brad Penny would weaken Dombrowski negotiating with free agents this offseason. We’ll almost certainly be going after at least a few guys that are cheap but solid veteran pickups, and it would be nice to be able to tell them that we won’t go off partying while your packing your bags.
Besides, it’s not as if Penny is taking the spot of some essential role player.
Give me a break
Do you really think including Penney will give us some advantage/talking point in negotiations?
Mel
I think cutting Penny at this point may hurt the brand.
The Tigers have a reputation for being a club that takes care of its players. That’s not nothing.
I think at a larger level players want to win
Ilitch has a rep that he takes care of his guys, and DD isn’t exactly despised league-wide, so leaving Penny off isn’t going to cripple them if they go after some free agents this winter. The decision should be to put the best 11 pitchers on the postseason roster, and you can’t convince me that Brad Penny is in that group.
Besides, do you really want a player on your team that cares more about having his feelings hurt than winning? Any potential free agent that this move costs us we probably don’t want anyway.
[insert signature here]
by Mark in Chicago on Sep 30, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Not my favorite move either...but
I would have fired Jim Leyland in May (like a lot of us here).
I would have release, traded, or sent down Ryan Raburn about 30 times.
I would not have signed 11 game winner Brad Penny.
I would not have signed Joaquin Benoit
I would have out right released Brandon Inge
I would never have traded Scott Sizemore
I would have traded for Ubaldo Jimenez instead of Doug Fister – C’mon, admit it most of you would have as well!
Brad Penny isn’t Justin Verlander, that we kNOW. I’m not sure WHY the brass is taking him, other than loyalty
Maybe they know something about Max or Rick that we don’t know.
But I agree with blueleo1 the 24th and 25th spots arenot going to make or break the Tigers this year.
And THIS year, I have stopped questioning moves that DD and JL make. Their decisions were better than the ones I screamed for
no way I would have fired JL
I’ve said it before… that would have been the dumbest move possible. if they had fired him mid-season, I firmly believe we aren’t playing today.
also loved trading for Fister over Ubaldo. had a huge argument with a friend when both trades went down… his view: we needed Ubaldo or weren’t making the postseason. Looks like I got the last laugh on that one.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Being a catcher
I doubt he’d be faster than anyone except maybe VMart. Of course, running for VMart is a valid move in the right situation, but we have faster options.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Zumaya is on there?
But I can see a penny situation where hed be useful. I.e. tonight; if the game is slated for an 845 start and they know rain is coming at 9:30, why bot make penny start the game incase of a lengthy delay forcing the starters out of the game.
It’s just a thought….
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
I believe Thomas and Zumaya are on there so that others can be their replacements, since they're on the DL.
They don’t take up a spot.
4 relief appearances is his career.
A whopping total of 3.0 IP. I really don’t see how he’s even remotely useful taking up that last spot.
by Ryan in Brooklyn on Sep 30, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
the more I think about it...
The more I like it. What would Worth and Pauley bring? Very little. If the circumstances present themselves, Santos and Penny can be saviors. Santos if Avila suffers an injury by providing +defense at the most important defensive position, and Penny by giving us lots of innings in a blowout saving the real bullpenners for tight games. What are the odds of these things happening? What are the odds Pauley (Kurt, you can’t even mention the important facts in your article before starting to bellyache?) or Worth are going to make a big difference in the series?
by Dergunna Wavimin on Sep 30, 2011 12:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Why are we arguing about Santos
Clearly, we need the insurance.
Regarding Penney, that’s a BAD move. Look, in a blowout, we could use Below or Pauley.
Play off roster
I, like Detroit Jim would not have had the team that won the division, if my wishes had been followed . And we probably would not have been in the play offs. So i will shut up and cheer for the Tigers
Hopefully it won't matter.
But if a game stretched to 14 innings, whom would you rather see trotting out of the bullpen—Penny or Below (or Pauley)?
I hope to see Brad on the field a bunch of times—in post-game celebrations.
by knucklescarbone on Sep 30, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
it's not loyalty
I doubt that the Tigers kept Penny because of loyalty. I very much believe they thought Penny would be more useful/helpful than either Below or Pauley. And that mis-evaluation is probably the most disconcerting component of the decision.
I prefer to believe that management is loyal
rather than having judgment that far from reality. I liked the Brad Penny signing, and I liked the work that he did for us most of the time, but he’s a detriment to the team as a pitcher any more. I’m not sure that it matters unless Leyland decides to start him. In any other scenario, he shouldn’t be used in anything resembling a high leverage situation. Same with Pauley. Leyland can be a bit dangerous with Schlereth and Penny, though.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
except that it's ridiculous
To think the Tigers would make any move not based on the goal of winning as many games as possible. Penny has experience. He’s a grizzled veteran. That’s important this time ofq year. Leyland is a veteran too. Do you really think he doesn’t know best?
The other thing to remember is that these roster spots probably won’t even make a difference.
by Dergunna Wavimin on Sep 30, 2011 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
there are a lot of grizzled veterans
but if they don’t have the arm — and penny has pretty clearly shown since august his arm is shot — they don’t have the arm.
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 30, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It is hard to judge the move only guessing at the reasons.
I do not think you can discount the loyalty aspect, and the message you are giving to players generally about how you run your team. They may have weighed this against the chances it will make any difference at all and decided the trade-off is worth it. Leyland and Dombrowski have done a great job this year and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, even though personally I do think Below would have been a better choice for that final pitching slot.
Here’s a question—does being included on the playoff roster affect the share of playoff loot a player gets? I am guessing it does. If that is so, there may be a thought that Penny has earned that by not missing a start all year and winning 11 games.
by knucklescarbone on Sep 30, 2011 12:49 PM EDT reply actions
Roster Share
I think the way it works is. All playoff teams get a percentage of the gate during the playoffs. For the 1st round I think its 3%. Obviously if you go deeper in to the playoffs your percentage goes up as well. With that said, if my memory serves me correctly the players then vote on who gets the shares and the percentage of said shares. They can vote on current players, departed players, departed players spouses if deceased, and the bat boy and peanut vendor if they wanted to.
like leo said
even if penny didn’t pitch in the post season I’m sure his teammates would vote him equal share
by Kurt Mensching on Sep 30, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see some uses for Penny
The rain delay mentioned by Siggzilla above is one. An injured starter is another. I think he’s more of a “plan B” sort of guy for most situations than someone that will ever throw meaningful innings.
With JV and Fister, followed by off-day, I’m hoping the bullpen (except for maybe Benoit and Valverde) hasn’t been touched until Monday. Monday and Tuesday, with Max and Rick, could present some interesting bullpen decisions, but I think Penny would only see action before the 5th.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Santos
I’m more frustrated by Santos than Penny in some ways. We’ve got enough guys in the pen that Penny shouldn’t see any action unless we’re up or down late by an insane number of runs. But Santos just seems a waste. Why not have someone who can actually pinch hit? If Alex has to leave the game for some reason than just make Brandon man-up and strap on his gear.
We keep talking about Inge as an option at catcher, but
Leyland has called Kelly his emergency backup at catcher all year long. It is pretty clear at this time that Inge is not considered an option at catcher. We all know how JL loves to play Kelly all over the field, and not having another legitimate backup at catcher would probably limit JL in that regard.
by knucklescarbone on Sep 30, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
But the problem is
if Avilla is lost for more than a game, do you really want Inge or Kelly catching? If you have to bring up Santos at that time, then Avilla is out for the next round
I can see why they took Santos
But Penny? Unless you use him as a pinch-runner…
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
Contributor, Bless You Boys
Now they decide they have a backup catcher?
It makes sense if you think about how beat up Avila got all season. But uh isn’t July the better time to save your catcher, not October?
As for Penny I’m more sanguine about it, mostly I guess because it was expected. He has pitched pretty well in the middle innings so I figure he’s the official Rolaids Eddie Bonine Spells Long Relief man.
www.mgoblog.com
If we didn't have a back-up catcher
The Yanks just might try to take out Avila. Throw at him, start a fight with him, get him ejected. They are ruthless.
the yanks are a bunch of spoiled millionares and a lazy team
you must be thinking of the billy martin yankees. This bunch of yankees are a softball team and geriatric, they haven’t got into one scrap the entire year and if they did they couldn’t handle it. Not too mention their catcher is already hurt, A-rod and Swisher are hurt. The only 3 guys in their normal lineup that don’t need an afternoon nap to play night games are granderson who couldn’t possibly be nicer , Cano who is a hotdog and plays with as much intensity as the average player after 16 bong tokes so that leaves Gardner who weights 180. CC and Mariano Rivera aren’t going to bean anybody. Seriously this yankess teams are a bunch of *ussies , who exactly on that team do you think is going to start something, Freddie Garcia? Unless you steal Bartolo Colon’s lunch that team wouldn’t pay somebody to fight anybody. If anything we should start something, we could kick their ass and half of them are hurt to start with.
Below
Wasn’t used in a critical situation since Aug. 24. His last 4 appearances:
9/4: Entered in 9th inning up 18-0, gave up 2 runs.
9/15: Entered in the 6th down 5-0 to Oakland, gave up a hit and a walk (no runs). Walked the first guy in the 7th and was removed.
9/20: Entered in the 5th with Tigers down 7-1 thanks to bad Penny start. Gave up 2 runs in 1 IP on a walk and homer. Replaced in the 6th.
9/26: Relieved Fister for the 9th inning after Tigers scored 8 in the 8th to make it 14-0. Gave up 1 hit facing four pinch-hitting coffee cups.
The guy hasn’t faced a pressure situation in over a month. You can make a case for Pauley over Penny but not Below.
www.mgoblog.com
Those
were also all 1 inning appearances, they weren’t exactly getting Below prepared for a long relief role, I don’t see his absence as surprising at all.
game viewable on the internet?
i think i saw something about this on an earlier post but wasnt paying attention, and now i need to know. i’m invited to a poker game at a location without a tv, but it does have a high speed internet connection. is there a site i can go to online to watch the game for free? i would hate to miss 3 hours of this card game to go to the bar to watch the game, but there is no way i miss JV destroy the skanks just to take some $$ from these guys. any help?
Thomas!?
as in.. Brad Thomas?? Whaaaaaaaat
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
DL player.
They can be replaced later on if needed I believe.
I don't like Penny much...
But he makes more sense than Pauley or Below. Where are you going to use Pauley that you wouldn’t us Al, Schlereth, Perry, Coke, or Benoit first….
Below isn’t stretched out. So he is at best a situational lefty, which JL would never use him as.
As was said above, Penny is your 24th guy. The pitcher you could use in an extra inning game, rain delay, or in mop-up. He saves everyone else in the pen in an emergency situation and can log 60 or 70 pitches no prob.
That's the roster that I expected
I wasn’t expecting Below or Pauley to make it. They’d only be used for mopping up anyway. Penny can be used if one of our top 4 starters gets hurt.
I’d rather have Penny in the dugout also just in case if there’s a brawl. Penny is one big dude and is probably the only guy on team that could hold back Miguel Cabrera. I’m not really serious about this though, but I wish we still had Gerald Laird for something like this. I’m really just looking for positives in keeping Penny.
the other plus with Penny...
Is he may be the one pitcher on the roster who can frustrate the yankee hitters by taking too much time, not the other way around.
What would an inning of him pitching to the Yankees take? Like an hour and a half?
i just freaked out my coworkers
with a big laugh at the thought of yankee hitters standing the box thinking c’mon man, get on with it!
by MotorCityCat on Sep 30, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Santos need for 9th in blowouts , Penny I can't explain
Everybody knows if we are up by 12 to 14 runs Jim is willing to give Avila an inning or two off, then again it is the playoffs so realistically he would have to be hurt too to get an inning off. Penny makes as much sense as hitting your worst 3 hitters at the top of the lineup, this club has shown an ability to overcome the old-school stupidness of leyland so far so hopefully this will continue, I have no desire to see Penny unless it is a 10 run lead and I would still have my reservations, why you would him to pitch in long relief is beyond me, maybe he can throw off the hitter’s timing for the next guys by giving them too many meatballs. I’d suggest telling Penny the first 2 games are in Detriot, then after that to take a long walk off a short pier.
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