Victor Martinez could miss 2012 season
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 17, 2012 3:39 PM EST
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintThe Detroit Tigers announced that Victor Martinez sustained an ACL injury during a workout last week. An MRI at the Watson Clinic in Lakeland, Fla., revealed the torn ACL. He will be re-evaluated next week, however, the Tigers anticipate surgery will be necessary. That surgery will end Martinez's 2012 season before it even begins.
The Tigers have scheduled a teleconference to discuss this further at about 4 p.m. I'll dial in and provide updates to this post.
Obviously, this is really quite awful news.
(Near) live updates from the teleconference, pardon the typing mistakes!
John Lowe: Are you looking for a hitter?
GM Dave Dombrowski: We’re open to it by all means. Victor is a quality hitter, a key guy in our lineup. we do have some flexibility with positions players play with us. We’re ina s pot we could maneuver from within.
I’ve received numerous phonecalls from agents in the last hour llooking to place their players. we need to digest the situation, it all happened in the last day. We need to know what’s going on and we’ll go from there.
You have a guy like raburn who can play numerous positions, santiago can play second and short, andy dirks can play a lot of outfield spots, we’ve got outfielders who we feel can DH. you’ve got all sorts of possibilities.
How did he get hurt?
DD: He got hurt shuffling side to side movement, apparently his right foot slipped and when he did that he slipped in an awkward fashion and his left buckled on him, that's how he got hurt.
Trainer Kevin Rand: It happened last week as he was doing his agility drills, part of his conditioning program. he was doing a lateral move, his right foot slipped, all his weight came down on his left knee.
Similar players of a similar age have all recovered and done fairly well.
On Dr. Richard Stedman, who Martinez will see next week
Rand: We want our players looked at from the finest surgeons out there, finest doctors out there. Same surgeon who did surgery on clete thomas, he did an outstanding job.
On Jim Leyland's reaction:
DD: I know how I felt yesterday. Kevin called me in the morning, left me a message. I got the message later in the day we were waiting results. It didn't sound quite as optimistic. Any time that happens you're in a situation you feel like you get a sock in the gut kind of thing. Thats how Jim feels. I did talk to him today about that. Just like the rest of us. Yo've been in the game a long time, you need to be resilient. After you feel sorry for yourself for a day or so, you move on, start looking at all your alternatives. look at a club like st louis, lose adam weinright and go on to win the world series. we're a good club. players will step up, we'lll still have agood club.
Was victor at the lakeland base?
DD: He was working out on his own somewhere.
how's victor feeling and what extendt do you think he'll be around the club
DD: He's down, there's no question about that. I talked to him this morning. He's down in the dumps, loves to play the game, loves to be around it. You know it hurts him when he ges this type of news. He does everything he can to get himself in the lineup. How much he'll be around, I don't know that answer at this oint. The biggest thing is he'll be rehabbing. He won't be traveling with us at the beginning of the year.
Kevin Rand: We have to wait for the surgeon to operate on him, then we have a timeline.
What day did it occur?
Victor was working out in Orlando late last week.
Is it common for guys to come back 6 or 7 months from now?
DD: I think the possibility comes back he could come back later in the year, but I don’t think it’s something you count on. If it’s something it’s pleasant news. Sometimes it’s pleasant news, but I don’t think you can count on him coming back.
On loss of leadership:
DD: No question he’s a great teammate, great in the clubhouse, and well respected. you miss a player like him but I think … we have other people that can do a good job leading in that regard. the real leader in the clubhouse is our skipper. We’ll be fine in that regard.
short term or long term signing?
DD: Most likely i’d say it’s short term. It depends what position somebody plays and who they are. I would not 100% believe it won’t be anything beyond a year. We have a lot of information on every player in baseball. We didn’t spend a lot of time taling abotu DHs at that time but we have all that information
Can you totally rule out there was no leftover weakness of any kind from problem he had in august?
KR: He was evaluated at the end of the season. the diagnostics at that time show he knee was healed and he could go ahead with his offseason
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NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Dammit dammit dammit and some other swears, too.
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
The solution is now obvious.
Platoon 1st/DH between Miggy and Prince Fielder. Problem solved……..errrrrrr….right?
by Anthony Steven Lewis on Jan 17, 2012 3:45 PM EST reply actions
har har
I was going to make a similar joke on twitter
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 17, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Go out and get Fielder. Before Texas signs him.
by KeystoneTiger on Jan 17, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
not what i had in mind
to revive a “boring” off-season. but rumors will fly now i suppose.
No, I think is just Kharma...
Biting ole D&D n the but, 4 standing pat, with 2 pair. It pretty odvious 2 most every1, b4 this happened, they were n need of sum big improvements, @ least judgin by what we saw n the playoffs. There is NO ONE within the organization who can step up & put up the kinda #s & consistency that vMart did, O ya I 4got his big signin was LAird, who 2 LEAST Gives us a backup catcher, with a dead bat. U shoulda really paid attension last season, cuz 2 say u don’;t need 2 improve this team is statement of futility & disillusionment.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Kharma is an exotic dancer's name.
Karma is a religious belief.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Kharma is dat fat chick from WWE.
aka Awesome Kong.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
DD was holding a Full House
It would of been insane to break that up.
I can't even begin
To make a joke about this. I literally feel sick to my stomach.
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
Yes.
I don’t have cojones, but I bet this is what it feels lie to be kicked in them.
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
Fantastic.
I’m not too surprised though – figured Martinez would have a leg injury during the season though.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
There is a reasonable answer
I was thinking Damn or even Mags would be candidates too,
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
His OBP was decent
And he wouldn’t be in the OF at all. There really aren’t too many choices that would be better. He finished the ear strong and I think he is still an above averae hitter; he just can’t run.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
key word there
can’t run. OBP means a lot less when you are that immobile and don’t provide any pop.
Not being able to run doesn't matter as much when the guy behind you is just as likely to blast one into the seats
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 17, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
The fact he gets on base means he can definitely be in the 2 spot.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Victor couldn't run last year either
didn’t make much of a difference
That was my thought right after I saw the news
Sign Maggs for a year and put him in the 2 or 3 spot. The guy doesn’t have any power anymore and his wheels are about done but he makes contact and takes a walk when needed. He would vastly improve the top of our order.
Boesch/Maggs 2 and 3 (I am not particular about which is 2 and which is 3) and move DY to 5.
Didn't look done at the en of the year when his ankle was healthy and he wasn't playing in the OF
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
Nothing better than wishing an injury on someone!
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm wishing that you get the most vicious paper cut right now!
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Good thing they resigned Don Kelly today.
Oh wait.
@mattnickoless
by AbsoluteBeginner on Jan 17, 2012 3:52 PM EST reply actions
Cespedes in LF
And Delmon Young now goes from an average-ish hitting LFer to one of the worst hitting DHs in the league.
Bad break.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Heh
Agreed
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
This is a good idea if you like OBP
…and if you’re looking for a cheap fix for a year. I’d be happy with this.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Wouldn't surprsie me one bit
The Tigers went from confident to
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys, host the Bless You Boys Podcast and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
Desperate? EVERYBODY PANIC?
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys, host the Bless You Boys Podcast and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
Sheriff, this is no time to panic!
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a list of availble FA options, just to throw it out there...
Johnny Damon, Carlos Pena, Magglio Ordonez, Vlad Guerrero, Derrick Lee, Cody Ross, Luke Scott, Rick Ankiel. Uh…ugh.
Of course, there’s Fielder and Cespedes.
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys, host the Bless You Boys Podcast and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
Tiger killer
Luke Scott signed with someone the other day
by dominator039 on Jan 17, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Vladi might not be bad...
Maybe?
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
after the list started out with Johnny Damon, Carlos Pena...
I was totally expecting the next name to be “Chris Shelton”
Eat 'em up, Tigers!
I always atleast try to find positives in any situation
This one, however, has me coming up empty
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
Panic was 20 minutes ago
Ive moved onto serious onset depression and suicidal tendencies.
Anger will come next and I burn things.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
Reply fail
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
I was think more like orphanage
Or hospital….someone needs to pay after something of this magnitude gets dropped
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
He's a DH
So he was worth less than three wins last year (not much less, but I’m trying to be positive).
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Does that take into account
His protection of Cabrera in the lineup? Cut Miggy’s IBB by 1/3 between 2010 and 2011.
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
Yup
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm...here's one
If VMart makes a decent recovery, he’s probably available for the playoff run to add to whatever we have in his absence.
As Leyland would say, “Getting VMart back is like our big acquisition.”
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
reunion?
Possible reunion with…
Damon?
Pena?
Guillen?
Maggs?
Or does Strieby finally get a shot???
Vlad also comes to mind….
Would love to see
Damon, my boy.
I had tigerblood in my veins long before Charlie Sheen went crazy.
Go Tigers!
Hermida
Thoughts on maybe a Jeremy Hermida signing? http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hermije01.shtml
I can only think of one thing to summarize my mood right now
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 3:56 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Was waiting in that image
Fairly safe to assume that now is a really great time to start binge drinking for the rear of the day.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
I blame you,
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
pay prince fielder 1 year. $30M.
problem solved.
Scott Boras laughs hysterically at that idea
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on Jan 17, 2012 4:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
VLADIMIR GUERRERO
BRING THEM TO ME
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 3:57 PM EST reply actions
OH F&^%$!
damn it. Just when i thought The tigers will have a break out season, this happens. I am so disappointed but that is what life is..Have to take it as it goes.
When the news first broke I thought they meant he tore his ACL back when he had that injury last July and they only now found out about it
I was ready to lead the “Fire the team doctors and training staff” charge
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
Combine Miguel's batting prowess with Jackson's defense and frame
We have our new 3B.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
you mean an Albert Pujols.
oohhh that would be cool to have a DH like that.
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Federal cuts...republican House.
not enough money for science.But tons of money to wage a war.
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm hoping this doesn't mean Victor is the new Carlos.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 3:59 PM EST reply actions
Haha...right
VMart has the decency to get injured instead of stringing together massive amounts of 0-4, 3K games.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Thanks for sharing the word with us, Kurt.
Well… when it starts anyway.
Injuries happen
But what’s upsetting is injuries aren’t supposed to happen in the offseason! This is every baseball fans time for unbridled optimism!
i agree
somehow this is worse than him getting hurt on opening day
by redwingxviii on Jan 17, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
with what money?
finances don’t change at all with this
Wowowow
I think we need to make a move, now. We can’t afford to have both Inge and Don Kelly in the everyday lineup.
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
John Lowe: Are you looking for a hitter?
Dombrowski: We’re open to it by all means. Victor is a quality hitter, a key guy in our lineup. we do have some flexibility with positions players play with us. We’re ina s pot we could maneuver from within.
I’ve received numerous phonecalls from agents in the last hour llooking to place their players. we need to digest the situation, it all happened in the last day. We need to know what’s going on and we’ll go from there.
you have a guy like rayburn who can play numerous positions, santiago can play second and short, andy dirks can play a lot of outfield spots, we’ve got outfielders who we feel can DH. you’ve got all sorts of possibilities.
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 17, 2012 4:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
put it back in...use some Super glue.
all is not lost. Cardinals won WS without Wainright
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve got brennan boesch coming back. we do have delmon yougn … all year long compared to last year.
the reality is, we’re not going to have victor martinez but some guys could step up, do better, get more playing time. opening day is not until april 5 so we’ve got plenty of time to try to deal with the situation. it’s not something I feel like we have to rush out there and make a move immediately.
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 17, 2012 4:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
did that question come from Mlive?
Raburn-Santiago '12
by tigers22 on Jan 17, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Raburn & Young
Both better with the stick than the glove. This is one way to keep them in the lineup but off the field…just looking for positives, but it just sounds like a huge downgrade no matter what. Bummer.
Get well soon, Victor. The team needs your bat AND your leadership!
Rand: we want our players looked at from the finest surgeons out there, finest doctors out there. Same surgeon who did surgery on clete thomas, he did an outstanding job.
Clete Thomas and Victor Martinez in same thought?
I just…no…no…
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
the surgeon is Dr. Richard Stedman btw
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 17, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Little Victor, bat him 8th, bat Avila 5th
Problem solved.
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
by johnmoz on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His strike zone's gotta indicate that he'd be better off hitting second
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
leyland’s reaction:
DD: I know how I felt yesterday. Kevin called me in the morning, left me a message. I got the message later in the day we were waiting results. It didn’t sound quite as optimistic. Any time that happens you’re in a situation you feel like you get a sock in the gut kind of thing. Thats how Jim feels. I did talk to him today about that. Just like the rest of us. Yo’ve been in the game a long time, you need to be resilient. After you feel sorry for yourself for a day or so, you move on, start looking at all your alternatives. look at a club like st louis, lose adam weinright and go on to win the world series. we’re a good club. players will step up, we’lll still have agood club.
I blame everyone who
Said they’d give anything to not see delmon in the OF next year.
This is all of your collective fault.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
#raiseshand
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 17, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sicker by the minute
Losing his presence in the clubhouse hurts as much as losing him in the lineup. Finding a reliable bat to replace Victor in the lineup will be a problem without spending big bucks on a guy like Fielder. Pass on Damon and Pena. Sickening…devastating even.
What about David Ortiz?
One-year deal? Price is steeper, since he’s the Last of the Type A Free Agents, but he has rebounded well from a bad 2009 (.952 OPS last season).
If not him, I’d be OK with Carlos Pena
Papi accepted arbitration from boston
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
I thought Boston had re-signed him?
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 17, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Was victor at the lakeland base?
DD: He was working out on his own somewhere.
how’s victor feeling and what extendt do you think he’ll be around the club
DD: He’s down, there’s no question about that. I talked to him this morning. He’s down in the dumps, loves to play the game, loves to be around it. You know it hurts him when he ges this type of news. He does everything he can to get himself in the lineup. How much he’ll be around, I don’t know that answer at this oint. The biggest thing is he’ll be rehabbing. He won’t be traveling with us at the beginning of the year.
Kevin Rand: We have to wait for the surgeon to operate on him, then we have a timeline.
What day did it occur?
Victor was working out in Orlando late last week.
Is it common for guys to come back 6 or 7 months from now?
KR: I think the possibility comes back he could come back later in the year, but I don’t think it’s something you count on. If it’s something it’s pleasant news. Sometimes it’s pleasant news, but I don’t think you can count on him coming back.
Don't count on it
There’s a lot of rotational movement involved with hitting and the ACL is an important structure in that regard. I doubt he plays this season.
Rather unlikely
It’s happened. I know a few years ago Akinori Iwamura tore his ACL in May (I think) and was back in September, but that’s very rare.
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 17, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
And do we really want V-Mart to be anything like Iwamura?
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I tore my ACL as a junior in high school
Playing football at the end of August. Had the surgery, rehabbed, and made it back for baseball season… so yes, there is a slight possibility. But it’s different for everyone, and I’m just gunna count on him not playing this year.
Raburn-Santiago '12
We'll be ok
Huge loss, for sure. But now is not the time to overpay for a mediocre replacement.
Dirks/Boesch/Raburn/Young is better than the other DH options out there. Damon would be nice to have as a clubhouse guy, and but would perhaps only improve the team a smidge. Gotta stay smart and look at a one-year deal for a pitcher. The other options just aren’t much better than what you’ve already got. Let’s not pull another Jacque Jones signing…
I had tigerblood in my veins long before Charlie Sheen went crazy.
Go Tigers!
Jacque Jones was a trade, not a signing
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 17, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Good call
But my point stands: let’s not add another player who isn’t better than what we’ve got… there is a big, big pile of mediocre DHs out there, and they just aren’t worth it. Let’s see what Dirks/Young/Boesch/Raburn can do with some more at-bats!
I had tigerblood in my veins long before Charlie Sheen went crazy.
Go Tigers!
Options?
First names that leap out to me are a return for Johnny Damon for his on-base skills, signing Cody Ross and sliding him into Left field and hoping he gets some power back. Backing up the Brinks truck for Cepedes. Trading Turner for a bat instead of an arm.
Of all those, I like the idea of turning Damon into a full-time DH and hoping the drive to 3,000 hits and familiarity with the Tigers drives him to have a good year.
anyone but JD
said it the first time around, I just don’t like the guy.
but…… guess we need to do something. I wouldn’t mind Pena for a year
Raburn-Santiago '12
Pena
Do you really want someone who hits .220 and strikes out 160 times, even if he does get on base occasionally? He hit 20+ HR only once his first go-around in Comerica.
by HawkeyeEdward on Jan 17, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I take Pena for sure
Takes a ton of walks, high OBP, good wOBA. He is the only option I can see performing at close to V-Marts level without causing us to break the bank, or give up good prospects. I don’t know what contract length he is looking for, but on a 1-year deal he looks to me like a really good option
Yup
Sign him to a one year deal, if he’s willing to come back.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Think about this
AJax = 180K
Aliva = 131K
Raburn = 114K (in 121 games)
Pena = 160K
That’s…a lot of giving away at-bats. It frightens me.
by HawkeyeEdward on Jan 17, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I like to measure the other side of the equation
as long as a player is getting on base at an above average rate, Pena for example is perennially in the top 25% in OBP (top 10% in walks), I don’t care so much what specific flavor his outs were. In terms of “giving away at-bats” a guy like Pena strikes out for very different reasons than someone like A-Jax ir Delmon Young. The latter two are free-swingers, where as Pena tends to work much deeper into counts and actually has a very good sense of the strikezone.
It's interesting
how Pena’s production changed so significantly once he hit Tampa. His first five years in MLB were nothing particularly special (as the Tigers saw firsthand), but somehow he started walking 40-50 times/year more when he started playing for the Rays. (His HR went up, too, but I think that’s more a function of the Trop. And also, his K rate exploded. He’s averaged 158K the last five years.)
2002-2005 = .242 BA, 195 total walks, 475 K (only played half of 2005)
2007-2011 = .236 BA, 474 total walks, 790 K
Taking a closer look… it seems like Pena was starting to figure things out in 2004. That year and 2005 (which he only played half the year, but the production looks pretty similar to 2004) match up with his 2010-2011 numbers. I don’t think we’re going to see the power numbers from 2007-09 again, certainly not at Comerica.
Is .230, 24 HR, 80 RBI, .345 OBP, and .800 OPS an acceptable line? Because I think that’s what we’re gonna get.
by HawkeyeEdward on Jan 18, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Nice post
Is .230, 24 HR, 80 RBI, .345 OBP, and .800 OPS an acceptable line? Because I think that’s what we’re gonna get.
I’d take that.
by Rob Rogacki on Jan 18, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Just for comparison
V-Mart’s 2011 line is .330 BA, 12 HR, 103 RBI, .380 OBP, and .850 OPS.
by HawkeyeEdward on Jan 18, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Fangraphs agrees
Pena is our best bet in a platoon with Raburn for DH, with Pena occasionally putting Miguel at DH and Pena at 1B.
The writer views Damon quote, “unfortunately.”
Angels seem like only option
Too bad Beltran signed he would have been perfect , there is nobody in free agency with good OBP hitting skills left against lefties and righties and we can’t have 3 or 4 platoons so I think the Angels are the only solution. Either Abreu or Morales is expendable for them, probably can get Abreu if we pay 80% of his salary, maybe we can give them Smyly and have them give us Morales and throw in Isturus although I can’t see any reason they would do that. Abreu can still hit some but he isn’t great against lefties , unfortunatly not much else out there I can see unless we want to trade Turner and Castellanos. Besides signing Prince to a 1 year deal , which isn’t going to happen I don’t see anything in free agency, Pena isn’t a good contact hitter you want behind Miggy but he is about the only decent thing I would only consider. The blue jays have a lot of DH types but nobody to get excited about. By the way this really blows.
I like your thinking with the Angels
Making a deal to get Abreu or Morales seems like a better option than the FAs available. They have Wells, Trout, and Hunter locked in as their 3 OFs.
by ShakersJacobson on Jan 17, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Fuuuuuuuuuuu
We just went from division favorites to division contenders.
Who are we contending with?
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
ZING
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Strech but...
I honestly think KC is a Cinderella story waiting to happen. And last year was a bad year for injuries in Minnesota. In spite of their losses I will never count the Twins out until they are mathematically eliminated. Those pesky bastards have consistently overperformed over the past decade.
They also overperformed
with TWO MVPs in the last 6 years.
They used to be a good team.
Now, they are a shell.
But...
who else in the division wants it that bad? The ChiSox are throwing away talent (Buehrle, Quintin, etc.) the Twins got rid of Cuddyer, Kubel, etc. And the Indians are a fizzle waiting to happen. We can still win this thing on pitching alone.
Teleconference over
All the best quotes from the Q&A are now in the post if you reload. I’m starting a new story
I would give anything
for a healthy Carlos Guillen circa 2006. (sigh)
Whats the over under
on intentional walks for Cabrera without Vmart hitting behind him?
Are we assuming Avila has a repeat of last year?
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
The BA should drop off
There’s nothing that indicates that the power will.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
And shouldn't drop by much
His BABIP was a bit unsustainable, but his line drive rate was up an line drive hitter consistantly have elevated BABIP. I don’t see his average dropping off that much. .270-.280 sounds about right from avilla.
Tired of generic music??? Exterminate All Rational Thought is here to help!
Damon
is on the phone saying, “I only need 277 hits! I can get half of those here; I’ll come in at $4M.”
I've heard David Wright's name being thrown around...
Yes or no? I’d give up the farm system to get him here.
eh... I definitely wouldn't give the farm
and it adds a bat but doesn’t really solve the problem
Raburn-Santiago '12
There's really no point in a trade when there are still a ton of DHs on the free agent market, several of whom could probably be had on a one-year deal
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 17, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
It solves the problem
VMart out as #5
Wright in at #5
Your 3B platoon gets supplanted to the bench and you now put Raburn/Young in a DH partnership, with Kelly being super sub at LF/3B/DH* and Raburn getting the other 1/2 of his PAs from 2B, to the groan of most of the BYB community. Inge? Not so much.
I don’t want to give up the farm, but I’d give up anyone not named Turner/Castellanos(sp?).
*b/c you know Leyland will.
Baseball is like a poker game, nobody wants to quit when he's losing: nobody wants you to quit when you're ahead. ~Jackie Robinson
by LittleLeagueTiger on Jan 17, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
I love me some Raburn
so we can just throw him in there at DH and that’d be fine with me
But swapping out Vmart for Wright… isn’t exactly a great solution. I know we’ll never be able to replace the production straight up, but the numbers we’d get from Wright are definitely not worth the farm
Raburn-Santiago '12
Pena/rayburn
That platoon blows victors production out of the water…
by Wolverine119 on Jan 17, 2012 4:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You know what hurts? Losing V-Mart's switch hitting.
Made it harder to walk Cabrera, knowing the guy behind him can hit lefties and righties.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 4:47 PM EST reply actions
Bright side our D just got better
Moving Young to DH and Raburn to platoon in LF. Trade for a 2B that hits left handed with power would be super?
Ah.... The ellusive left-handed second baseman.
So…… Chase Utley?
My first thought too...
…at least we won’t have to see Delmon in left.
People mentioned Abreau, I think he’s done. Maybe if they can make some package taking him and his salary and Macier Itzuris.
DAMN IT! This just makes me sick.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
Free agent list
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions/free-agents
A few that intrigue me are Raul Ibanez, Derek Lee and Carlos Pena. Assuming all are cost-effective, of course.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
talk about it right now on Intentional Talk
they bring up 2 good points…. it’s better for this to happen now and plan for it than in the middle of the year. And while it does suck, we’re in the right division for it to happen and still be okay.
Even with the news today, I still think we win the Central.
Raburn-Santiago '12
Outside of that, how'd you'like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
by Honeyman on Jan 17, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hee hee hee
I love this line.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think we're still favorites to win the Central, too.
But I was hoping to build on last year’s accomplishments, not just hope we might be able to repeat one of them.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Pena makes the most sense.
He can be a full time DH, spell Cabrera at first base, gets on base at a good clip (even with a horrible OBA) and has some power. He seems to be a lot like Martinez, but in a different way, if that makes any sense.
by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on Jan 17, 2012 5:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Now would be a good time to get that big bat Ilitch talked about
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
You know, it's awful to say,
but I kind of like this. It’s gonna force the issue for DD to address the offense, and I believe VMart would have had a pretty significant regression anyway. You can never know, but now the offseason gets way more interesting.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it was the other way around..." Jim Bouton
The guy had a .850 OPS, which is still above his career average.
I very much doubt he was going to have any serious regression.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather it not be "way more interesting"
if it let us keep the best DH in the American League last year. Ugh. Sick. To. My. Stomach.
by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on Jan 17, 2012 5:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We're gonna need more Froot by the Foot!
I love Dmitri Young; one of my favorite Tigers ever!
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
watch out
I heard the Twins are on the verge of signing LadyCop to counter this
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on Jan 17, 2012 5:36 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
The AL Central's arms race steps into overdrive!
I loved The Dugout so much!
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Carlos against righties last year: .246/.379/.503/.881
I’m down with that.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 17, 2012 5:33 PM EST reply actions
That dead cat who almost replaced Carlos Guillen is still available.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Since when was Juan Pierre a DH?
Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia, haunted by the ghosts of Tigers past
"In baseball, there is what you expect and what you cannot expect, and after that there is what you cannot even imagine." --AG
Rebound! Look out, boys and girls, cuz here we go again!
by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 17, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
if you wanna do that again...
its unconfirmed, but read we might be talking to the Cubs about soriano for a PTBNL
Raburn-Santiago '12
Helpful hints: keep the swears out.
Gamethreads allow swears, these posts don’t.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Sorry
I definitely dropped an F-bomb. I figured it was extenuating circumstances here.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
I though he was referring to "Juan Pierre".
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
by Honeyman on Jan 17, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Why not just platoon DH
and wait until the July trade deadline to get a discount on somebody we aren’t even discussing now? DD gets a much better deal then, a true rental even, and the Central is bad enough the Tigs can stay in the race until mid year on pitching alone.
This is why I never conditioned in the offseason
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
by Honeyman on Jan 17, 2012 5:53 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Okay, that was my first laugh in a few hours.
"Some guy told me I should walk with the Lord. I'd rather walk with the bases loaded" Ken Singleton
yep
Only shampoo for me also and skip the blow dry
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Somewhere
Boomer Wells nods sagely, then runs his finger around the bottom of the peanut butter jar to make sure it’s all gone.
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
To look at it optimistically
at least he didn’t get injured during a pennant race, where we would know for sure he’d be out for the rest of the season. There’s still a glimmer of hope…
that said, sign Pena ASAP
by NintendoPlaystationNumbers on Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM EST reply actions
According to my research (using OOTP as a trade simulation)
We can get Albert Pujols and Maicer for Raburn, Oliver, Wlik, Dirks, Coke and Casey Crosby.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
LET'S DO IT!
I’m sure Arte Moreno is going to have no problem with it.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
VMart will still have a better year than Dunn.
If we get Cespedes, then Delmon to DH. If we don’t get Cespedes then I’d sign Vlad Guerrero.
"It's my first big league win and you can't beat that. I'm kind of elated to tell you the truth. I wanted to continue the streak of our starting pitchers. That's 5-for-5 right there." Justin Verlander
HA
Great title.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Jan 17, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
I hope Victor has a speedy recovery
We need his bat and his leadership on this team.
I guess speedy wasnt a good word to use
When the ETA is 2013, there’s nothing speedy about it. Just hope that when he comes back, he’s 100% healthy.
Unless they pick up Pena...
I think it would best to roll with Young or Raburn, and see if you can grab a bat at the deadline if they don’t stack up.
Sucks because I love watching Victor play, but I don’t think the sky is falling.
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