Oswalt, Ibanez, Damon, Pierre: Tigers rumors abound

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 23, 2012 3:08 PM EST in Detroit Tigers Analysis

It's only a matter of time before the Tigers are linked to every veteran hitter who is getting up there in years and/or coming off a poor 2011 season. Whether or not they have interest in all of those players, who's to say?

Today, for example, the Tigers were in the news -- at least on Twitter -- for the following reported reasons.

They pushed hard for Roy Oswalt, even had Justin Verlander give him a call, but he does not want to play in Detroit. (CBS Sports' Danny Knobler says.)
Raul Ibanez and Hedeki Matsui may be of interest. (Knobler)
Johnny Damon may be of interest (Fox Sports' Jon Paul Morosi)
Don't forget Juan Pierre. (Morosi and Jim Bowden)

In the coming days I expect to hear about a push for Vladimir Guerrero, as well, and probably more.

And I haven't even brought up trade rumors! So I just wanted to write a few notes about rumors.

I will point you toward Motor City Bengals for a longer post on reasons why, but in short, I find the MLB Insider News Twitter account dubious and will not report on its rumors. The account may try to tell you it was first on some story, but generally it's just incorrect. Ignore them.

Most of what the national media members report doesn't occur either, but they don't tell you it's a done deal. They just tell you what they pick up in chatter from their sources, which may or may not have a snowball's chance of occurring, and which may or may not come from sources with agendas. (It's their job as journalists to sort out who has an agenda and how it impacts what they say, but I worry that some of that is lost in the Twitter age.)

Sometimes the Tigers deny these rumors were ever the case. Just remember, not every rumor comes from solid truth, and not every denial has to come from solid truth either. It's hard for us to know which side was closer to the truth, so I find it best to just keep a healthy skepticism of everything.

Sources closer to Detroit like MLive's Chris Iott, MLB.com's Jason Beck, the Oakland Press's Matthew B Mowery, the Freep's John Lowe or the News' Tom Gage or Tony Paul probably aren't going to throw rumors at the wall at all. So when they tell you something is happening, there's a good chance it is. (The News' Lynn Henning does seem to toss things at the wall, so I remain skeptical of his reports.)

What sports radio does is frequently spitball ideas. And unfortunately, a lot of hosts just like to make noises and don't know what they're talking about. So most of what they say isn't even reporting rumors, it's just throwing names about.

As for us, we're more in the analysis business than the breaking news business, but from time to time I do break news. (Also: wind.) I don't want to be wrong. Like, ever. To me, credibility is huge and I want you to keep testing what we say against what actually happens. So if we've got some news here that no one else has yet, it's because I feel pretty darn confident in reporting it.

So with those messages out of the way, I now return you to rumor central.

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Comments

How do we make the world forget that Juan Pierre is an actual, living, human being?

+1 for fart jokes

by TartanElk on Jan 23, 2012 3:14 PM EST reply actions

Doesn't he play for the Giants?

For Ernie. For.Sparky. For Magglio. For ME

by Dale S on Jan 23, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions

(the NY football Giants)

For Ernie. For.Sparky. For Magglio. For ME

by Dale S on Jan 23, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions

who are going to

THE MOTHERFU**ING SUPER BOWL, according to their punter.

Detroit4Lyfe

by Rob Rogacki on Jan 23, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

all thanks to the offspring of Kenny Williams

CRAM IT HAWK!

"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson

by rock n rye on Jan 23, 2012 3:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

First of 2012?

Fan of the Tigers ~ Lions ~ Red Wings! - Restoring Pride to Detroits Sports Teams
WIIM Mursak Leagues Wingedmule (97-90-38)) PoD Bench Leagues PackMules (7th)
Get better in 2012 Lions! - Thanks for a Great Season (10-7)

by MuleRules on Jan 23, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions

He's not quite old enough yet

If he were a starting pitcher, he’d be too old. As an aging OF, he needs a couple more years.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

by momotigers on Jan 23, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions

if there is a trade or a signing

chances are it will be completely worked out by the time news breaks, because that’s how DD rolls.

"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson

by rock n rye on Jan 23, 2012 3:18 PM EST via Android app reply actions

Gut feelings

On Oswalt, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is just too far down the road in talks with Boston. Like maybe he has a ballpark offer that he likes, and they’re talking details. Could be incentives that pay him for being healthy for the season, or maybe even a vesting option on a second year that would be more lucrative. If there wasn’t something in the works, it wouldn’t make much sense for him to just turn down a reasonable offer without a counter.

Most of the names being floated now are the free agent DH types. I really don’t want to go that direction, since we’d be better off moving Delmon to DH, Raburn to LF, and improving our defense in two spots in the process. Damon makes some sense, as he can still probably get on base enough to justify his place in the 2 slot, but his power is gone and his fielding has gone with it.

I want no part of Juan Pierre, period. He can’t hit, can’t field, and gets thrown out 40% of the time when he tries to steal. I’d gladly have the Tigers pay for him to go back to Chicago and increase their suckage factor.

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 23, 2012 3:44 PM EST reply actions

And then, there's.......

Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #Tigers, #Marlins, #Cubs most active on Cespedes. All three tracking him closely in DR. Still no word on when he will be FA. #MLB

Ahhhh…. much more palatable news!

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 23, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

I like the part about no word when he'll be a free agent

every time they float dates nothing happens.

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 23, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions

Oswalt has never been a fan of Detroit

He wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause for us a couple years ago.

Detroit4Lyfe

by Rob Rogacki on Jan 23, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I mentioned before that he's one of my favorite non-Tigers

He just earned himself a -1

by H2OPoloPunk on Jan 23, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions

A lot of these rumors . . .

. . . are just speculation about the obvious. With Victor down, who on the free agent list is semi-possible as a repacement? Well, Ibanez, Damon, Matsui, Pierre, Guerrero . . .
So naturally, we start hearing thinly-sourced rumors about the Tigers being interested in them. Any move that a fan who doesn’t pay much attention might see as plausible will get reported as “rumored.”

by rea on Jan 23, 2012 4:09 PM EST reply actions

and I think it is safe to say a large percentage of these "thinly-sourced "rumors are coming from agents.

by rif23 on Jan 23, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly

Scott Boras, among others, is famous for planting the “mystery team is interested in Player X” story on behalf of his clients to drive up their perceived value and create urgency among potential suitors.

"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker

by johnmoz on Jan 23, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions

if that mystery team ever signs anyone

They are going to have one heck of a team.

"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson

by rock n rye on Jan 23, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

May be too early yet

blueleo <———— on the ground turning purple ready to hurl at the thought of Johnny Damon coming back. Pleaaze, say it ant so. Lyn Henning must write for some other sports town because he’s always hacking on detroit teams especially the tigers. I swear he gets paid by another newspaper. It seems the things he writes is way out there and off the grid. Anyways, I think the list or lists that have been mentioned are legit. I think a lot of these guys probably want a lot of money and/or more then a one year contract. So, for now, until the dominoes of the signings fall, they are all holding out for more money and/or more years. The closer we get to spring training day one the more antsy these guys get to get a deal done. So, it may take the last minute to work something out with one of these guys (Not named Johnny Damon) to work something out. GO VLADDDIIEE!!!!

by blueleo1 on Jan 23, 2012 4:42 PM EST reply actions

So you're ready to hurl at the thought of Johnny Damon coming back.

Okay so far, maybe overreacting a bit, but I think we all agree he’s not an ideal option.

But then you go and root for the Tigers to sign Vlad, who is (and has been for the past three years) a worse hitter than Damon? Vladdy was exactly replacement level by fWAR and worth .1 bWAR. Why do so many people want the Tigers to sign him?

by thepartybird on Jan 23, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions

He used to be good?

"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz

"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching

by David Tokarz on Jan 23, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions

But Damon has been serviceable for the past few years.

Vlad hasn’t. In fact, Vlad has been demonstrably worse than Andy Dirks.

by thepartybird on Jan 24, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed

I’d take Damon over Vlad too.

Detroit4Lyfe

by Rob Rogacki on Jan 24, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

(Also: wind). That's some beautiful prose, Kurt. made my day

by Profs KP on Jan 23, 2012 4:45 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions

funny

we won without oswalt and damon b4. we don’t need either one. just semi-washed up players tryin to get a few more checks. wouldn’t add them if they wanted to play for free.

by yappy007 on Jan 23, 2012 6:04 PM EST reply actions

so what you're telling us is that the loss of Victor Martinez has no impact at all.

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 23, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions

I think that Kurt just made up the Martinez injury for page views and story ideas

Detroit4Lyfe

by Rob Rogacki on Jan 23, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Granted, I can totally see him doing that

"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz

"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching

by David Tokarz on Jan 23, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions

I'm committed to the cause of pageviews

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 23, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions

Ibanez or Pierre would be depressing

/firstworldproblems

by NintendoPlaystationNumbers on Jan 23, 2012 6:15 PM EST reply actions

Well, we are Detroit

Depending on who you talk to, first world is debatable.

by TartanElk on Jan 23, 2012 6:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Right

A certain Mr. Oswalt appears to think otherwise.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

by momotigers on Jan 23, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions

That's what I was saying

That he appears to view us as 2nd or 3rd world. But mostly referring to the US in general.

by TartanElk on Jan 24, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions

It would be fun to shout Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul to Ibanez.

It would be fun to shout, “Nice try, you bum!” to Pierre.

I am not a fan of Delmon Young.

by HighOPS on Jan 23, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Touche`

by H2OPoloPunk on Jan 23, 2012 6:48 PM EST reply actions

That was supposed to be a reply to TartanElk

by H2OPoloPunk on Jan 23, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions

Agree and also with signing Betemit to platoon with Inge

Then move Kelly to 2B to platoon with Sanitago. Santiago hits lefties well. Kelly did play 123 games at 2B in the minors. Like to see another bullpen arm.

by Barry2 on Jan 23, 2012 7:06 PM EST reply actions

Betemit signs a one year deal with Baltimore

and he might actually be a defensive replacement for Mark Reynolds. Talk about butchery!

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 23, 2012 10:57 PM EST reply actions

We need to make a trade

Maicer Izturis what will it take?

by Barry2 on Jan 23, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions

Probably a Phil Coke?

guesstimate.

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 24, 2012 2:56 AM EST up reply actions

This is interesting and makes a lotta sense

The Angels have holes in their bullpen and a surplus of infielders. They are rumored to be in the market for Cordero, but ya’ gotta believe they are geting a bit tapped out money-wise. A trade makes more sense. I have been advocating Macier Itzuris for months now as I think he’s a perfect fit for us, would fill many holes, and has not reached near his potential due to sporadic injuries and lack of consistant playing time. If it was Coke for Itzuris straight up, i would do this trade in a heartbeat.

"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"

by Honeyman on Jan 24, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions

Didn't they just get a 100mil per year TV deal?

They are no where near tapped.

by wilsonm24 on Jan 24, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions

$ 150 mil

not about being tapped, they’re just not going to need Maicer going forward

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 24, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly

Aybar is pretty entrenched at short and Howie at second. They just resigned Callaspo to essentially be their 3B and utility 2B/SS. Now with Albert at first, they gotta find a place for both Trumbo and Morales. They are apparently going to give Trumbo some work at third too, as they don’t wanna lose his promise and power. There are just too many bodies there…..somebody has to go and for whatever reason, it seems like Maicer (correct spelling) has never been a Sciosia favorite.

"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"

by Honeyman on Jan 24, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions

That was in response to them being almost tapped made by Honeyman

Since they have the option of signing Cordero or trading for Coke I think they would rather have Cordero, who is arguably better than Coke and they wouldn’t have to give up any infield depth to a potential playoff opponent.

by wilsonm24 on Jan 24, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

"Tapped" was a bad choice of words

I should have used “budgeted out” or something. Moreno has got plenty fo cash, but he’s never spent money for the sake of spending it….he’s a very shrewd businessman.

I will contend your point about “potential playoff opponent” though. That thinking essentially rules out dealing with any American League club. No reason to have Itzuris gathering dust on the bench. They only have so many roster spots and it appears Maicer might be the odd man out.

"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"

by Honeyman on Jan 24, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions

Don't teams typically carry a backup IF?

Wouldn’t it be great if the backup IF was actually decent in case somebody went down, or just to keep them fresh? Yes, and yes.

Contending teams don’t just trade players because they’re on the bench. They trade them if they’re expendable AND they can fill a need. Trading Izturis to the Tigers does not fill a need unless they get a very reliable reliever (in fact, it creates a need for a backup IF unless somebody like Santiago or Worth is part of the deal). I’d say the only reliable relievers we have are Valverde (too expensive), Beniot, and Dotel. Some would throw Coke on this list, but I don’t think I would.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

by momotigers on Jan 24, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions

I kind of think

That the Tigers may want to hold Coke as a bit of insurance for starting pitching as well. If they can’t get a veteran and the kids don’t show that their ready in spring I think Coke could be a last resort. I think he would be moved to the pen real quick if one of the kids starts really producing in the minors though.

Just a thought and probably not going to be well received on here, but it is a possibility especially with the games started clause in his contract.

by wilsonm24 on Jan 24, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions

Problem with Itzuris

is that no one knows how to spell his first name.

OR his last name. Macier Izturis? Maicer Itzuris?

But I agree, Honeyman. I like what he could bring to the table.

The only Tigers fan in Honduras.

by aarone46 on Jan 24, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions

'Tis the (off)season of haves and have nots

This is one of the strangest off-seasons I remember. It seems like some teams (Angels, Marlins, Rangers, Rockies, Nats) have unlimited funds to spend on whatever the heck they want. Other teams (Tigers, Boston, NYY) seem totally cash-strapped and aren’t even thinking of adding pieces if they cost over 3M.

I’m depressed. When a kid wakes up on Christmas morning, he isn’t excited about seeing Laird, Dotel, and Balester under the tree. The only decent player that it seems like we’re into is Cespedes and he’s a crapshoot (not to mention I believe that Miami will indeed give him the moon…or at least 70M and the Everglades.)

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

by momotigers on Jan 24, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions

So, apparently the Rangers are apparently shopping Koji Uehara

I don’t know what it would take to get him, but I would love to have him.

by TartanElk on Jan 24, 2012 12:21 AM EST reply actions

Don't know why I apparently put a second, "apparently."

by TartanElk on Jan 24, 2012 12:25 AM EST up reply actions

apparently you had your reasons

apparently.

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 24, 2012 12:53 AM EST up reply actions

nothing wrong with good apparenting

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 24, 2012 2:57 AM EST up reply actions

OH MY GOD I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE UEHARA

I am fascinated by his sideburns.

Detroit4Lyfe

by Rob Rogacki on Jan 24, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions

I was thinking that at the end of the season when the Rangers left him off their WS roster

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 24, 2012 2:57 AM EST up reply actions

Just not sold

on any of these declining, injury-prone veterans. I think a trade is needed in order to sufficiently address our needs.

Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual

by BrianCMU. on Jan 24, 2012 12:24 AM EST reply actions

FWIW

2011
Damon .261 .326 .418 .743
Ibanez .245 .289 .419 .708
Matsui .251 .321 .375 .696
Vladdy .290 .317 .416 .733
Pierre .279 .329 .327 .656
Kotchman .305 .378 .422 .800
Abreu .253 .353 .365 .717
Ordonez .255 .303 .331 .634
Betemit .285 .343 .452 .795
Delmon .268 .302 .393 .695
-—————————————————————————
3 year
Damon .271 .348 .436 .784
Ibanez .264 .329 .469 .798
Matsui .266 .349 .445 .794
Vladdy .295 .332 .458 .790
Pierre .284 .342 .338 .680
Kotchman .266 .336 .383 .719
Abreu .267 .365 .413 .778
Ordonez .292 .356 .413 .769
Betemit .284 .354 .467 .821
Delmon .284 .316 .442 .758

Did I miss anyone? Obviously, a player’s three year splits won’t mean much if his performance is in rapid decline, and some of these guys are pushin forty. For others, the lefty/ righty splits are more helpful because they may be in a platoon. I can’t get excited about any of them. I’d be more excited to learn that we’re getting Delmon out of the outfield and Raburn out of the infield, or that Inge and/ or Kelly won’t be ever starting against a RHP.

"King of Minutiae"

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 24, 2012 3:47 AM EST reply actions