Tigers' pursuit of Yoenis Cespedes shows they mean business
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 31, 2012 9:28 AM EST
in Detroit Tigers Analysis
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The Tigers are (apparently) among six teams negotiating with Cuban outfielder Yoenis Cespedes, Jim Bowden of MLB Radio and ESPN.com reported last night on Twitter.
Marlins, Cubs, White Sox, Orioles, Tigers are 5 of the 6 clubs that have been the most serious in negotiations with Cespedes agents
— JIM BOWDEN (@JimBowdenESPNxm) January 31, 2012
6 Teams are seriously negotiating w/ the agents for Yoennis Cespedes who is expected to travel to US in nxt 7-10 days for face to face mtgs
— JIM BOWDEN (@JimBowdenESPNxm) January 31, 2012
I say "apparently" because it's hard to tell from Bowden's tweets if this is new information or not. Over the past few weeks, we've heard that six teams are chasing Cespedes and that the Tigers are one of them. Bowden does use the word "negotiations," which indicates this is probably new information. Cespedes was declared a free agent last Wednesday, which was kind of lost among all the Prince Fielder news. Teams could not negotiate with Cespedes before then. So this would tell us even after signing Fielder, they still want to do more.
If true, the Tigers are not nearly as tapped out as some pundits declared them to be. Pursuing Cespedes would indicate the Tigers are comfortable with a higher budgetary floor for the coming years. In chatting with me, fellow BYB author Matt Wallace put it this way: "If they still go hard at (Cespedes), I'd take it as an indicator that Fielder is almost 'set aside' funds." In other words, that $23-24 million a year going to Fielder? Don't worry about it. Ilitch will pick up the tab.
And why would he do that? Crain's Detroit Business author Bill Shea recently detailed the myriad financial ties the Ilitch family has with downtown Detroit. From real estate to parking towers to Olympia Entertainment to a casino to, yes, pizza. Paying for a superstar like Fielder may pay for itself in the long run by getting more bodies and excitement downtown to Ilitch's other businesses.
Shea quotes baseball economics expert Andrew Zimbalist:
"Given his wealth and his wife's wealth and their myriad business interests, it's quite plausible what he's doing with the Tigers is maximizing his wealth portfolio," Zimbalist said. "If the Tigers are successful on the field, if he's got superstars playing for him, he thinks people will be more likely to gamble, to eat pizza."
Ilitch said during the press conference last week:
"I go by my instincts like everybody else does in business, and my instincts told me this is going to work out just fine. I don't have any concerns. I'm not nervous about it."
So it's a big picture thing from the owner's point of view, while the Tigers themselves may show some red in the budget.
It's clear that Ilitch and the Tigers want to win. They want to win a lot of games, and they want to win six more playoff games than they did in 2011. They want to win the World Series. And they're committed to doing everything they can to getting that done. If they feel like Cespedes -- or a veteran pitcher, or whatever -- helps them to do that, anything is game.
(Via MLB Trade Rumors)
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Oswalt
Supposedly, the Tigers offered $10 million to Oswalt and were turned down. The timing of that becoming public suggested it happened after the Fielder signing. If so, that’s another example of the Tigers being willing to invest more money in winning now.
What if Oswalt?
If Oswalt did sign, we may not have gone after Cespedes. I agree that the timing of the Oswalt news and Kirk’s assessment of Bowden’s tweets suggests that the Tigers are still looking to spend more. We may never know if they would have signed Oswalt AND Cespedes. In 3 years I’d rather still have Yoennis than remember having Oswalt for 2012. Oswalt turning down our lucrative offer may work out well for us in the future.
by ottisfranklin on Jan 31, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Banners fly forever
In 3 years I’d rather still have Yoennis than remember having Oswalt for 2012.
Yes, it’s very impractical to say that Oswalt would bring us a championship this season, but I think that Oswalt would have given the Tigers a better chance at a championship this season.
by Rob Rogacki on Jan 31, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What I want to know is why the Tigers were never linked to Edwin Jackson.
He would have came cheaper than Oswalt, has pitched in Detroit with success, and (at this point in Oswalt’s career) is about as good of a pitcher.
Was there some bridge-burning I missed? Maybe because they traded him after he had a breakout season?
i'm ok with Ilitch buying a world series
still gonna party =)
I think we'll make a solid offer for Cespedes
Probably in the 5 year / $40 Million range. I don’t think we’ll have the winning bid, but it will drive up the price.
I agree completely.
The Marlins are going to go after Cespedes recklessly (i.e. more than 8 MM per year). Considering how much an ex-Cuban star would help them from a marketing standpoint (and how it will … uhh, not do much for any other team linked to him) I don’t see the Marlins not coming away with him.
Unless they’re out of spendin’ money and really not in the running; just posturing so the fanbase doesn’t get furious with the team again for being tightwads. That does seem like a Jeffrey Loria thing to do, this offseason notwithstanding.
Ya don't buy championships...
No… but you can buy talent to make those championships more attainable.
I am all for that! :D
(Un)Official President of the Team Jacob Turner Fan Club
Yet Another Movie Blog
by DetroitTigersGeek on Jan 31, 2012 10:11 AM EST reply actions
You can buy championships
But you still have to spend your money smartly. Simply writing big checks doesn’t guarantee a trophy, but it certainly does help.
See: ‘01 D-Backs vs. ’02-’07 Yankees for how to do it right and how to do it wrong.
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
SPEND MORE MONEY
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
I'm assuming if signed he'd start out in the Minor league system, right
are any of the teams in the running offering him a guaranteed 25 man roster spot?
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on Jan 31, 2012 10:33 AM EST via Android app reply actions
I assume he would need at least a few months in the minor system
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 31, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Probably a couple
But he’d be a hell of a “midseason acquisition”.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
by David Tokarz on Jan 31, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think he'd be opening day starter
Barring a totally awful spring training at the plate, like 1-for-50 or something like that, I think the money, probably $40 million range as someone above mentioned, would dictate he be on the MLB roster, as well as his showing in the WBC a few years ago among other things. Dude was a huge player against some top world talent. I think anybody cares about his showing so far in winter ball. He’s just buying time getting a few swings in.
Alexei Ramirez
Went directly to the White Sox at age 26 from Cuba, and he plays a tougher position.
He’s done all right.
Doesn’t mean Cespedes won’t spend time in Erie or Toledo, but a player of the same age and who played in the same league has made the jump to MLB.
If your parents didn't have any children, chances are you won't either
by Singledigit on Jan 31, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Skeletor's rookie season was his best one too
.290/.317/.475 with 21 HRs and 77 RBI.. He finished second in the ROY voting behind some bum named Longoria.
by Rob Rogacki on Jan 31, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And he helped me dominate my fantasy baseball league that year.
Even though he’s a Sock, I’ll always like him for that.
by SweetLouDoubleU on Jan 31, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
It's As If
Ilitch is tiring of Cups. The man wants a ring just as much as anyone else, if not more than, anyone else in the game today, and he knows he has a whole state willing to buy their weight in $5 pizzas to support a winning team.
I won’t lie. I am over Cups as well. I am 25, I have seen 4 cups. I would trade any of them, other than the first for a WS title.
But I would also have traded the middle two for a win in game 7 versus Cindy.
by Geofffree on Jan 31, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not to start a debate...
But 1998 was pretty special after what happened in the summer of 1997.
And the 2002 cup was awesome; otherwise the Wings would have had the TWO biggest disappointments ever (to go along with the 1996 62 win team).
by MakeItTrizzle on Jan 31, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Cespedes is the Tigers' last chance to go big for amateur talent
With the new restrictions on how much clubs can spend on draft picks, and restrictions on international signings that will apply to every player 23 or younger, and since the Tigers have had to give up their first round pick for signing Fielder (and probably the amount they can spend on the draft is further reduced), this could be their last hurrah in the international/ amateur market. No more “over slot” signings or big bonuses. Might as well go big.
Jim Callis called Cespedes a top ten pick if he were rated in the upcoming draft, and the top prospect in any organization that is likely to sign him.
"King of Minutiae"
by Tigerdog1 on Jan 31, 2012 10:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
how well regarded is the Tigers international scouting department
part of the reason the Wings have been successful is drafting quality international players with lower draft picks. Any reason to think with the caps on draft pick spending they focus on the finding talent in the Venezuelan and Dominican market?
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on Jan 31, 2012 11:46 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
So Many Places To Hide Talent
Nobody has ever won a ground war in Russia cause it’s so stinkin big. Combined with the Scandinavian countries, there is a lot of territory there. Diamonds in the Rough are more likely to be hidden away for the NHL scouts to stumble upon in the lower rounds. I feel like the Venezuelan and Dominican markets are well scouted and worked over; talent is known. We are less likely to strike gold in Latin America that hasn’t been struck by half the other clubs as well.
by ottisfranklin on Jan 31, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Subutai . . .
Nobody has ever won a ground war in Russia cause it’s so stinkin big
I Stand Corrected
Good point. You should teach Western Civ. Subatia died in 1248 so to correct myself, it would be more accurate to say that “in modern warfare, many leaders have failed to win land wars in Russia.” i.e. Hitler and Napolean.
by ottisfranklin on Jan 31, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
It isn't a bad department
We do a good job finding the proverbial diamond in the rough (guys like Brayan Villarreal).
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
by David Tokarz on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think if we miss out on Cespedes
We should take a serious look at Jorge Soler. He’s younger, but by all accounts will have a higher ceiling.
We seem kinda fixated on Cespedes though. Probably won’t happen, but I’d love if it did.
Did we really just sign Prince Fielder? Holllllllllly sh*t.
And there was no way we were getting Prince....
That day still makes me grin ear to ear.
by ottisfranklin on Jan 31, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I see
“we weren’t supposed to get Prince either” as a basis for the likelyhood of any ridiculous people might come up with becoming very annoying over the next few years.
The Rosterbaters have won.
The dark side of the deal…
He's like a fat John Smoltz
"Virtually all tactical ploys—the sacrifice bunt, the stolen base, the hit-and-run—operate on average to reduce run scoring." -- Eric Walker
But we're not trading him away
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
by David Tokarz on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Can we get both of them?
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
by David Tokarz on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, please.
Just think about adding Castellanos and Soler to the big league roster around the same time, or maybe a year apart.
Salivates…
Did we really just sign Prince Fielder? Holllllllllly sh*t.
I cannot "like" this story enough!
Illitch appears to be determined to win it all in 2012. I don’t know if he is feeling his own mortality or he is looking at the production curve of his team (or both). But if he goes after the best talent available and brings a WS to Detroit he will be a hero in my eyes.
(BTW I have recently started eating his disgusting pizza just because it might help the Tigers, because I am “that kind of guy” (IOW I would do almost anything to help them win))
Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
I wouldn't call the pizzas disgusting
I have great pizza here in Brooklyn, but sometimes the nostalgia of that hot-n-ready is enticing. For $5, I would call it pretty exceptional as any pie of the same size here would run me $20 at least. And their crust is pretty good for a midwest-style pizza.
What's the saying...
Pizza is like a certain bedroom activity: even when it’s bad it’s still pretty good.
by Sutelc on Jan 31, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Buy more tickets and Will help them win
by ottisfranklin on Jan 31, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
that's what I keep saying
reward the team financially. shop at the team store and buy tickets
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 31, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps we should orchestrate a "Support Your Team Through Pizza Day"
On the day the Tiger’s announce the Cespedes signing, every Tiger fan in the world gets dinner from Little Ceasars. Make it a record-setting day for the franchise.
A couple of blogs, mix in some Facebook and Twitter and I think we could spread the word pretty quickly. If we sign Cespedes, I’ll get the ball rolling.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I think you overestimate our reach :P
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 31, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
With my 4 grandkids . . .
. . . we’re well on the way to covering Prince Fielder’s salary. Only 42,799,000 more pizzas to go!
Forget for the day
Fielder AND Cespedes!? I’ll eat Little Caesars every single day from the moment that contract is inked until the end of the season.
That is an interesting idea for a documentary
Have some guy eat every meal from the same fast food place for a month and see what happens to him
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 31, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
I bet a documentary like that would make it in the news a lot!
The documentarian may even make some TV talk shows!
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 31, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
That seems unrealistic. People do not watch documentaries
Unless, I could get Kim Kardashian to be the subject. Have her eat pizza 3 times a day to support her favorite baseball team, then people may watch. Let me text Kim and see if she is willing to do it.
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 31, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
They could call it
1. The largest loser.
2. The fat cave.
I really hope we do not become the kind of team that reality stars like.
by manic in Detroit on Jan 31, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Buy the deep dish for $7
It’s way better and you’re contributing a little more.
by Rob Rogacki on Jan 31, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll third that
I’m not sure by what sorcery they can bake a deep dish in 8 minutes, but there it is.
Screw that...
Unlimited toppings is like 10 or 11 bucks…way better.
That's over double the price of a hot 'n' ready
And the crust for your pizza still tastes like cardboard.
You guys are doing it all wrong
I worked at LC for 3 1/2 years and still order there fairly often. What you want to do is get a Hot n Ready with light sauce and extra cheese. Should only cost you a little over 6 dollars, you get less of that nasty sauce, and more of that cheesy goodness for an amazing discount. I mean, if the pep and cheese combo is your deal, that’s a terrific bargain.
But I usually get the Italian Cheese Bread for $4. It’s a one man meal.
I prefer no sauce
They put too much sauce on it for my liking, so I like to get it without. Yum.
by Let's do this! on Jan 31, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I completely agree with the "set aside money" theory..
Additionally, I think they view Cespedes as the long term replacement for Delmon, which is more or less a budget neutral move going forward (with some surplus potentially). I don’t think this year’s payroll would necessarily affect the decision to hire Cespedes.
by BayesLaw on Jan 31, 2012 1:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Shell Game
So many $ making activities are off the books for the Tigers
Not sure how the parking works, but it may be owned by Olympia Entertainment
Also, there are beers sold in HockeyTown cafe, and everything else which is farmed out to a 3rd party vendor owned by Mike
But the big plus you have to remember is that Marian owns Motor City casino, ANYTHING that gets people downtown might attract some of them to the Casino which just prints money
They own so much of downtown
that the Tigers may in-fact be more of a loss leader for the rest of their operations.
not sure if this is relevant here, but what the heck
Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski ruled out the possibility of playing Miguel Cabrera in left field
read that on MLBTR. Glad to hear that, because I was getting tired of hearing people suggest he could move back to the OF. Plus, he can’t play left because they’re saving that spot for Cespedes in a few months… right?!
Did we really just sign Prince Fielder? Holllllllllly sh*t.
I was going to say the exact same thing
by Let's do this! on Jan 31, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Oh really?
I must have missed it in all the mayhem.
Regardless, it just makes me even more positive that we’re pretty much all in on Cespedes still. And I like it.
by Let's do this! on Jan 31, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I missed it too
either way, it’s reassuring to hear
Did we really just sign Prince Fielder? Holllllllllly sh*t.
Wow.
Lots of bored posters.
Let’s hope the Tigers sign someone or do something before April. Pizza Pizza and Kim Kardashian are both scraping the bottom of the barrel as discussion topics, IMO.
Liked the historical references, though, and learned something, as well. I had never heard of Subutai, and I majored in history.
by knucklescarbone on Jan 31, 2012 10:06 PM EST reply actions
Just Googled Subutai
Was the military leader for Genghis Khan, kind of like Rumsfeld was for Bush. World History Minor. Thought he was a large pitcher for the other Evil Empire in New York.
by manic in Detroit on Jan 31, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Just Googled Kim Kardashian
Also, very interesting results
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
by momotigers on Feb 1, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty sure the words "large" "evil" and "empire" also came up
But probably not in the same connotation as before. Well, at least not with “large.”
by Rob Rogacki on Feb 1, 2012 8:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It wouldn't take much to get a NY Rangers' fan
or a Bruins fan, who is also a Yankees or Red Sox fan, to view Ilitch as a monetary force to be reckoned with.
The Rays apparently upped their bid for Carlos Pena as soon as Victor was injured, for fear that the Tigers would come in with their checkbook and steal him.
"King of Minutiae"
Good thing for both teams
that we didn’t steal Pena. Cleveland offered him more money than Tampa, but they can’t buy love, or a 1B either.
by manic in Detroit on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Had it not been for the timely death of GK's son . . .
. . . you would remember Subutai as the man who captured Paris . . .
by rea on Feb 1, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
CC Subutai?
No more than a distant relative, I am certain.
by knucklescarbone on Jan 31, 2012 11:20 PM EST reply actions
At least
the Wikipedia article does not mention any connection.
by knucklescarbone on Jan 31, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
A bit off topic here
Although, that’s not a an entirely new trend here:) Kurt, when will we continue grading our tigers? Just a thought to edge the ebb of the tide after Fielder just washed over us, as far as blog material is concerned. Don’t get me wrong though, I’d love to consider what would happen if the Kardashians bought the Yankees and tried to take over Russia.
I guess I really need to get back to that.
after uhm, 2.5 months off. whoops. I might do it in shortened format
by Kurt Mensching on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Inge
If Cabrera is going back to third, which seems to be the case, this leaves Inge without a job there. And since everyone assumes Santiago can’t play every day at second, why not platoon Inge there?
Given the choice of finding AB's for Raburn and AB's for Inge
You pick. I’ll take Raburn every time – even if it means he’ll play 2B.
This team’s philosophy is clearly to play the best 9 bats and find a place in the field to put them. Our best 8 bats are currently Avila, Fielder, Cabrera, Raburn, Peralta, Young, Boesch, and Jackson. The 9th bat comes from the crop of Inge, Santiago, Kelly, Laird, and Dirks. Among them, I’d say Santiago is your best bat and has a pretty good glove as well. Santiago is my pick which puts him at 2B and puts Delmon and Raburn having a defensive folly-off for RF and DH.
Inge hits LHP acceptably. My guess is that Inge plays 3B against LHP – shifting Cabrera to DH. With a RHP on the mound and a ground-ball pitcher for the Tigers (Porcello or Fister), you might see Kelly play 3B and Cabrera DH. After all of this typing, I realize that there’s just a lot of moving pieces on this team. I don’t think Inge will play 2B though. It seems like a move that would just exist to find some playing time for a player that’s worse than our other two options at 2B.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Inge will probably want to leave
If and when Cabrera re-establishes himself at 3B. That should be about when Carlos Guillen wears out at Seattle (end of April?). Inge could waive his 5 and 10 rights and go to a happier situation. I’m sure management would accomodate him.
by manic in Detroit on Feb 1, 2012 9:52 PM EST reply actions
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