Brawls

by Jeff on Jul 18, 2005 11:45 AM EDT in News Comment 9 comments

You may disagree. You may find them to be high comedy, or blood boiling, or a welcome break from the slow and stately pace of the game. But I think baseball brawls are ridiculous.

In no other sport is it kosher to leave the bench to join a fight. In the NBA, simply stepping on the court and stepping back off is worth a one-game suspension. In hockey, the most violent of the (semi) major sports, fights are rampant (which I also find ridiculous), but they are controlled, planned, and isolated (the Wings-Avs notwithstanding), and the players shake hands after they're over, In baseball, bench players and Don Zimmers rush the pitching mound to add fuel to the fire. Relief pichers make the 300-foot jog in from the bullpen so they can arrive late and stand around pushing people and holding each other back. It would be no less ridiculous if they just stayed out in their outfield pens, lobbing projectiles at each other over the bullpen walls.

This comes up, of course, because of yesterday's seven-ejection brawl in a Tiger-Royal game. Runelvys Hernandez hit three Tigers in that game to Mike Maroth's one, and the third, Carlos Guillen, took umbrage to getting popped in the head.

Guillen argued that Hernandez's first pitch of the sixth inning hit him on the foot. On the next pitch, the sickening thud of ball-on-helmet filled Comerica Park. Guillen pointed at Hernandez and gestured at him as catcher John Buck tried to direct him to first. The benches and bullpens emptied. Hernandez's day was done. Plate umpire Marty Foster had issued warnings to both sides after Maroth hit a batter in the second, after Hernandez hit two in the first. Foster judged Hernandez had thrown at Guillen on purpose with the warning in effect. Under the rules, Hernandez and K.C. manager Buddy Bell were tossed. Everything seemed to have died down as Guillen reached first base. But as the ejected Hernandez left the field, he said something to Guillen from about 30 feet away. Guillen pointed as he replied, then went after Hernandez.

At which point, Farnie proceeded to bodyslam someone, and the pileup was on.

Baseball has rules about issuing warnings to teams that throw at batters, an feeble attempt to prevent beanballs, retaliation, and brawls. They should also use harsh fines to prevent players from leaving the dugouts and bullpens, NBA style. I think the reason they haven't done so is that unlike his aggreived counterparts in in the NBA or NHL, a hit batsman who gets in a fight is outnumbered by opposing players on the field nine to one. Dugouts are allowed to clear to even the odds. I say forget that. Let the batsman stand there one on nine. Give him incentive to stand there yelling at the pitcher, held back by the umpire, an eventually choose to take his base rather than fight. If he charges the pitcher with a bat, arrest him. If the other team beats him up nine-on-one, let the police break it up and arrest them all. This silly vigilante justice is a bunch of macho posturing that wastes all of our time.

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Throwing at a player's head is different.

All bets are off when a pitcher throws at a player's head. Once a pitcher takes aim at a players head, we have left the realm of "game" and entered the realm of "assault and battery". People can be crippled or even be killed by getting hit by a ML fastball in the head.

There's only one way you will stop brawls from happening when a pitcher throws a fastball at a player's head. Slap cuffs on the pitcher when they do it. Put them in the back of a squad car, arrest them, charge them with assault and battery, and toss them in a jail cell. See how they feel about throwing at the next batter's head after they spend a night in jail for it.

There comes a point the league has to step back and allow law enforcement to handle what law enforcement should be handling. There's too many guys in the league that regularly throw 95+. It's too dangerous to be a league regulated offense. I'm not saying massive suspensions. I'm not saying long prison sentences. I'm saying the league needs to allow a pitcher to suffer the humiliation of being dragged off the mound in cuffs, and thrown in a jail cell for the night like any other bar brawler. It's the humiliation of being dragged off the mound in cuffs that will immediately stop this problem.

One last thing... any fight thread deserves to have a commemeration of 5'8" John Cangelosi charging and flattening 6'8" Jeff Juden after Juden threw at Cangelosi. One of those classic turnabout moments in sports, like Muggsy Bogues rejection of a Patrick Ewing shot.

by rebellingboxer on Jul 18, 2005 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, it's different

But how does a brawl make it any better?

Determining intent is also really hard. Did he mean to throw at the batters' head? Pretty much impossible to prove, I'd think. Moreover, we have whole legal systems set up to regulate this sort of stuff, and any kind of snap justice made on the field will be rough and unjust by comparison.

So I certainly don't have all the answers, but brawls don't help.

by Jeff on Jul 18, 2005 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And you're forgetting the fact

that Guillen had already been hit in the foot-- even the Royals announcers admitted it. The very next pitch hit him in the helmet. The way this game is set up, if your team doesn't support you after that sort of behavior, you're not much of a team.

by Boston Fan in Michigan on Jul 18, 2005 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh

The key phrase in there is "the way this game is set up". It's set up poorly. It should be set up so brawls don't happen, since they really don't help at all. Hernandez should get a big suspension, and it should be based on the act, not how long or not long Guillen is out for.

Remember Todd Bertuzzi? That hit was bad, but not worse than things that happen all the time. Scott Moore got hurt, and that's tragic, but there was neither extreme intent or extreme recklessness, IMO.

by Jeff on Jul 18, 2005 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I see nothing wrong with a brawl

to show support for your teammates, and this was a case where Guillen was perfectly justified in having that support. I loved watching A-Rod get glove jammed in his face last year too.

And it seems like a guy is much more likely to get hurt by a pitch than in a brawl-- no matter how crazy they get, there rarely seem to be serious injuries emanating from baseball fights, in which sense it is most decidedly NOT like hockey.

by Boston Fan in Michigan on Jul 18, 2005 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

brawls

Within conventional baseball wisdom, it makes sense. But conventional baseball wisdom doesn't make sense.

I get mad at people at work, maybe as mad as if they had tried to throw something at me. I clearly don't get mad. And I'm not even a professional at the top of my field, constantly in the public eye. Be professional.

by Jeff on Jul 18, 2005 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A pitch to the head

can put you in the hospital. I don't know where you work or what your job is, but unless it's construction or something I don't think your coworkers' malicious intent will potentially render you unconscious.

As for conventional baseball wisdom... I don't know that this is baseball wisdom, not in the same sense of the 'conventional baseball wisdom' that plays up the importance of bunting, for example. The impulse to protect your buddies, that's more like human nature.

by Boston Fan in Michigan on Jul 18, 2005 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Conventional

It's the same conventional wisdom that says that you should hit someone if they pose after a home run.

And no one is trying to hurt me in my job. The point was that natural human responses or not, these guys are professionals and public figures, and they should respond the right way.

by Jeff on Jul 18, 2005 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

RE: conventional

I agree with Jeff. Throwing at someone's head is wrong and could obviously result in devastating injury. Brawling in the absurd, throw-Zimmer-on-the-ground fashion that epitomizes the baseball scuffle alters nothing just as the fisticuffs seen in the NHL do little but risk further injury.

These guys are adults. Being hit by a pitch is an occupational hazard, however I would submit that they are adequately compensated for undertaking such risk. If you get hit by a pitch, be a man and take your base. Get your revenge by stealing second then going on to score--not by behaving like an adolescent with no emotional control.

by JoeS on Jul 18, 2005 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs